Load Link

loaders

Site Supporter
30
As others have said before me, double brokering can be unethical, unscrupulous and filled with potential problems. It is not however, illegal. It happens daily in our industry. When it takes place with the full knowledge and consent of all parties it is nothing more than just another completed shipment. It becomes toxic and illegal when it is used as a tool to intentionally defraud a broker, carrier or shipper.
 

DBHill

Member
5
An OO leased on is not double brokering nor shady I do not understand how you could think it is? Also if a carrier has a cvor and sell a load to another carrier so long as they ate billing their client directly how is that off either?
Just saying that if you are a carrier, and use owner operators, that can be considered re brokering and that owner operator may have rights under the BOLA or HTA.
 

DBHill

Member
5
That is not double brokering. Carriers have customers too do you realize that?? So if I do not have a truck for my own direct customer load what am I supposed to do with the load? Tell my customer Fuck off as somebody on the internet says it is double brokering?? HOW IS THAT? If I give a load to you where is the double??? Now if you sell it to another that is double brokering but ONE transaction between carriers is NOT double brokering. You get it yet?
Just saying that if you are a carrier, and use owner operators, that can be considered re brokering and that owner operator may have rights under the BOLA or HTA.
 

DBHill

Member
5
I w
That is not double brokering. Carriers have customers too do you realize that?? So if I do not have a truck for my own direct customer load what am I supposed to do with the load? Tell my customer Fuck off as somebody on the internet says it is double brokering?? HOW IS THAT? If I give a load to you where is the double??? Now if you sell it to another that is double brokering but ONE transaction between carriers is NOT double brokering. You get it yet?
as referring to SBTri post, and where they add the LL email. I understood it...did you have a chance to read it?
 

DBHill

Member
5
Rob. Did you read this part of the email?
If you contact a Loadlink member for one of their posted loads, the expectation is that the load will be moved on your truck operating under the same name and authority as your account. Posting equipment on behalf of another company will result in immediate
termination of your account.
 

Rob

Site Supporter
30
If LL was more concerned about who they are selling their services to as opposed to getting the cheque for that service (and repeatedly increasing their fees), it would go a long way in shaking out the bad actors, carrier and broker alike. Having a broken down straight truck parked in the yard allowing someone to obtain a CVOR, does not make them a carrier. Nor does simply having a phone and an internet connection make someone a freight broker
Krystal Transport Bonjour!! they have been at it for how long??
 

Michael Ludwig

Well-Known Member
20
I find this conversation fascinating !!! :)
I also find it highly unlikely that this policy can even be enforced, for the following reasons;
1) "Double Brokering" is not illegal. It is, as @loaders said, unsavoury, but it's not illegal. The issue at hand is really that the guy at the end of the line doesn't get paid, then has no recourse to recovery. That transgression has other connotations outside the scope of Double Brokering, even though Double Brokering is the instigator.
TO CLARIFY: Double Brokering is not illegal providing certain thresholds are met. I have yet to find either statute or case law the specifically states Double Brokering as the charge and/or conviction. Persons accused and/or convicted in Double Brokering cases typically run afoul of other statutes such as fraud and identity theft. If anyone can find either statute or case law specifically indicating the charge and conviction being the actual words "Double Brokering" I would love to get a link, and dive into it further. I appreciate the help on that.
2) With the above policy in place, LL sets themselves up as ripe for a lawsuit. Most likely a discrimination suit, and possibly even a defamation suit. Essentially the policy accuses people who engage in the legal practice of Double Brokering of committing some sort of transgression, i.e. non-payment of invoices, fraud, identity theft, etc., before said transgression has occurred.
3) LL would have no jurisdiction whatsoever over interlining which is a perfectly legal transaction perpetrated between two legitimate carriers.

Years ago I acted as a load broker. I structured a particular lane that was awarded to me as a clear double brokering scenario. There was absolutely no doubt whatsoever that this was a double brokerage situation. However, I did it properly.
My customer knew I was giving the loads to another load broker. I told my customer at the outset, before the first load was ever dispatched. My reasoning was simple; where these loads were coming from I had no stable of reliable and responsible carriers. The load broker I would give these loads to had that stable of carriers.
The load broker I would be giving the loads to knew who my customer was. They also knew that my customer knew about them, and that my customer also had their phone numbers.
The carriers knew that the load broker they were getting the loads from was getting the loads from another load broker (me), and that they would be delivering to my customer. These carriers had my customer's phone numbers.
Throughout this entire transaction, nothing, except who got how much of a cut, was left unsaid, and that's the way it should be. Carriers were paid fantastic rates, and on time. The load broker made his margin. I made my margin. The customer was happy with the rate he was paying. This went on for years.

After you all pick your jaws up off the floor, I am certain you have numerous questions. I will try to preemptively answer some of them. But, if you have others, ask away.
Q: How did you get this contract?
A: Vertical integration, and lack of resources. I was already doing other work for this customer, and the customer did not have the internal resources to manage this volume.
Q: Why didn't the customer just call the second load broker in the first place?
A: The customer did not know the second load broker. They only became known to each other through my network of connections. Add to that my known reputation in the industry, and the service and performance guarantees issued to the customer.
Q: How did you know the carriers would get paid fairly and on time?
A: I dealt with honourable people. Honour is a lot less common today than it was then.
Q: I don't understand.
A: It's simple; the customer paid me to be responsible for his freight within a budget he could justify as a fiscally responsible solution to the corporation's needs.
Q: Who is the customer?
A: Go find your own.
Q: How much did you make?
A: I'm happy.
 

Michael Ludwig

Well-Known Member
20
Another thought ... if the practice of Double Brokering itself was fundamentally, at its core, illegal, then so would the practice of Escrow, which has been enshrined in law for literally centuries.
As @loaders initially, and myself subsequently pointed out, the practice of Double Brokering is not, in and of itself, illegal. It is however, an unguarded gateway to the criminal activities of fraud, identity theft, extortion, and cargo theft.
 

DBHill

Member
5
I think if they do attempt to enforce it, it will be on the little guy.not the big guys.
Their contract is pretty straight forward though. If you don't like their policies, go elsewhere.
That's the problem when there's no competition. They can charge whatever they like and they can terminate their agreement with you for no reason.
It must be costly for them to police the trucking industry I suppose.
 

DBHill

Member
5
Another thought ... if the practice of Double Brokering itself was fundamentally, at its core, illegal, then so would the practice of Escrow, which has been enshrined in law for literally centuries.
As @loaders initially, and myself subsequently pointed out, the practice of Double Brokering is not, in and of itself, illegal. It is however, an unguarded gateway to the criminal activities of fraud, identity theft, extortion, and cargo theft.
I suspect LL is aware it's not illegal. But they can still impose a policy to their members that disallows double brokering.
 

Michael Ludwig

Well-Known Member
20
I suspect LL is aware it's not illegal. But they can still impose a policy to their members that disallows double brokering.
Yes, they can impose their policy. But, they better have some damned good lawyers if they do.
I am not an LL customer. Suppose I wanted to be, and they said no, because I am an admitted Double Broker (a few posts up). Their problem is going to be that I have not done anything illegal, and they are discriminating against me because they think I might. That's going to land us in court.
Now, as I am sure you are aware, the court is a public place, and in that court they are going to spurn my reputation by accusing me of being a criminal, without fact, form, or function.
Bottom line ... I'm looking at a cash cow ripe for the slaughter.
 

DBHill

Member
5
Yes, they can impose their policy. But, they better have some damned good lawyers if they do.
I am not an LL customer. Suppose I wanted to be, and they said no, because I am an admitted Double Broker (a few posts up). Their problem is going to be that I have not done anything illegal, and they are discriminating against me because they think I might. That's going to land us in court.
Now, as I am sure you are aware, the court is a public place, and in that court they are going to spurn my reputation by accusing me of being a criminal, without fact, form, or function.
Bottom line ... I'm looking at a cash cow ripe for the slaughter.
Maybe they will avoid making those types of comments , only simply to state we don't allow double brokering .
 

loaders

Site Supporter
30
I rarely disagree with my colleague, Michael Ludwig, but I am compelled to play devils advocate here. Could LL not say that they are selling memberships to anyone who wants to join LL? As a “club”, open only to paying members, they could argue that they have a certain code of conduct, similar to golf clubs, etc. They already require documentation of a carriers authorities, and as Jim L suggested, they should require FMCSA registration for load brokers. To be a member, one must provide this specific information and agree to the code of conduct. Although the whole thing is highly hypothetical, it would make for some interesting legal manoeuvring.
 

LouieLouie

Member
5
They could... however, you seem to think that LL is in this for the greater good when, LL has proven time after time that doesn't matter to them... They will do the bare minimum that it takes to line their pockets.
 

Michael Ludwig

Well-Known Member
20
They could... however, you seem to think that LL is in this for the greater good when, LL has proven time after time that doesn't matter to them... They will do the bare minimum that it takes to line their pockets.
LL answers to shareholders, not carriers, not brokers, not anyone else ... just shareholders.

I rarely disagree with my colleague, Michael Ludwig, but I am compelled to play devils advocate here. Could LL not say that they are selling memberships to anyone who wants to join LL? As a “club”, open only to paying members, they could argue that they have a certain code of conduct, similar to golf clubs, etc. They already require documentation of a carriers authorities, and as Jim L suggested, they should require FMCSA registration for load brokers. To be a member, one must provide this specific information and agree to the code of conduct. Although the whole thing is highly hypothetical, it would make for some interesting legal manoeuvring.
Now my learned (pronounced "learn ed") friend here has what can only be categorized as an absolutely brilliant idea. A club membership, with a code of conduct that is actually enforced, would go a very, very long way in curtailing the practice of double brokering.
 

loaders

Site Supporter
30
LL answers to shareholders, not carriers, not brokers, not anyone else ... just shareholders.


Now my learned (pronounced "learn ed") friend here has what can only be categorized as an absolutely brilliant idea. A club membership, with a code of conduct that is actually enforced, would go a very, very long way in curtailing the practice of double brokering.
Plus it could help in reducing the instances of non payment of legitimate invoices within mutually agreed terms.
 
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