Cheap Freight of the day

artmax said:
But isn’t this is whole crux? What is considered reasonable? Who decides that? Don’t cop out and say market forces.
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Yes, there’s some variance to what is considered “reasonable”, but I think most of us can agree on what is unreasonable. $2200.00 from Toronto to California would be considered unreasonable. Maybe a good definition of a reasonable rate would be one that allows an average carrier to operate profitably. Conversely, an unreasonable rate is one where no operator, no matter how efficient, can expect to turn a profit.
 
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artmax said:
I honestly don't think it's idle carriers that are accepting these rates - I have this persistent feeling that money is being siphoned out of the country into various industries abroad. (I'll get to this in a second)

• Idle or not, there is a certain level of self-respect and pride that goes into this job. You have drivers that are educated and well-mannered - they know what is what and work hard at it. They walk out of the truck at 7 am for a delivery, you can see that they aren't disheveled. Such an individual wouldn't stoop below their set standards for anyone - it would leave them with an uncomfortable, uneasy feeling that would stain their mindset. They have the foresight to understand that working below costs isn't feasible in the long term and is detrimental to precedent in the short term. I believe that these aren't the drivers doing the $2200 cross-country long haul.

• I have this feeling that there are companies operating with a preset end goal of not paying their drivers, of abusing government programs meant to ease industrial hiring burdens, and abusing safety and road regulations. Forcing drivers to work overtime, or knowingly skirting other precautions. This is a tough subject to broach.

Some companies work here for three years and then build an apartment building overseas (ask me who and how I know)

Some companies steal client lists and open up their operations, only to outsource their whole operations to less-than-competent teams.

Some companies co-broker and pass around freight between group chats of tens of thousands (if Dupont Chemicals only knew what happens to their lab equipment).

Sorry, there's no freight in my lanes, so it's audiobooks and soliloquies for me.
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On a side note, what are you listening to on Audiobooks? I listen while commuting and just finished Careless People: A Cautionary Tale of Power, Greed, and Lost Idealism by Sarah Wynn-Williams
 
AgentSmith said:
On a side note, what are you listening to on Audiobooks? I listen while commuting and just finished Careless People: A Cautionary Tale of Power, Greed, and Lost Idealism by Sarah Wynn-Williams
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Gibbons: Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire

Kissinger: On Leadership & On China

& anything and everything by William Durant (1861) - but this gentleman graces an English language slightly out of my fathom.

I’ll check out your recommendations!
 
artmax said:
But isn’t this is whole crux? What is considered reasonable? Who decides that? Don’t cop out and say market forces.
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Unfortunately, it is market forces. The moment someone accepts a low rate, in many shippers minds, that is now the new, reasonable rate. They will say something like….“If ABC Trans did it for that rate, why can’t you? The miles are the same, you will use the same amount of fuel. Why can’t you do it for that amount?” When it comes to determining what freight rates should be, that job falls squarely on the shoulders of those who provide the service…carriers. The cop out occurs when a member of the carrier community decides he has to drop his pants for whatever reason, and move his equipment regardless of what the load pays.
 
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But sometimes the "it's just the market" is a cop out... the market will never require participants to work at rates that are way below cost... at worst, the market may only support those who are most efficient to reach profitability.. Just because I post a load from Toronto to Cali for $2200.00 doesn't make that the market rate. I could post $500.00 or $40,000 for that matter... and neither of those rates would be "market" either.
 
Freight Broker said:
But sometimes the "it's just the market" is a cop out... the market will never require participants to work at rates that are way below cost... at worst, the market may only support those who are most efficient to reach profitability.. Just because I post a load from Toronto to Cali for $2200.00 doesn't make that the market rate. I could post $500.00 or $40,000 for that matter... and neither of those rates would be "market" either.
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Posting a low rate certainly doesn’t determine whether that is a correct, reasonable or market rate. However the moment a carrier accepts that rate…bingo….what you have there is the new “market rate”, at least in the mind of the shipper. Accepting low rates perpetuates the cycle and is one of the biggest impediments to improving this industry.
 
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JN1981 said:
Don't everyone call at once on this stellar offer...

View attachment 3002
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Poor Balkan kid working out of Serbia and being used as a pawn to post such ridiculous rates because his boss in Chicago is trying to maximize as much profit as possible, as if outsourcing for cheap labour wasn't enough for them already... What happened to America first?
 
Freight Broker said:
Yes, there’s some variance to what is considered “reasonable”, but I think most of us can agree on what is unreasonable. $2200.00 from Toronto to California would be considered unreasonable. Maybe a good definition of a reasonable rate would be one that allows an average carrier to operate profitably. Conversely, an unreasonable rate is one where no operator, no matter how efficient, can expect to turn a profit.
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"...there’s some variance to what is considered “reasonable, but I think most of us can agree on what is unreasonable.”

Who knew the 1964 US Supreme Court threshold for obscenity and the threshold for cheap freight are the same: "I know it when I see it."

Guessing it is because those rates are obscene!
 
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AgentSmith said:
"...there’s some variance to what is considered “reasonable, but I think most of us can agree on what is unreasonable.”

Who knew the 1964 US Supreme Court threshold for obscenity and the threshold for cheap freight are the same: "I know it when I see it."

Guessing it is because those rates are obscene!
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Like most things in life, there’s judgement involved. How should we define the word “bad”? Even on that alone there’s widespread disagreement. Is 88 cents a mile to Cali a good rate?…no carrier would say so, but correct me if I’m wrong.
 
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loaders said:
Posting a low rate certainly doesn’t determine whether that is a correct, reasonable or market rate. However the moment a carrier accepts that rate…bingo….what you have there is the new “market rate”, at least in the mind of the shipper. Accepting low rates perpetuates the cycle and is one of the biggest detriments to improving this industry.
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You’re assuming that the shipper knows the rate that the brokerage pays the carrier - the shipper can have difference between brokerages in the tens of dollars. It might be for example 1500 vs 1475.

Where as the carrier might be getting paid 1300 or 900 - just because the carrier is getting stuck with a low rate doesn’t mean the shipper is aware of anything. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Like the 455 load I posted above - do you really think CH Robinson tells their client they cover ON-QC for 455(+2% profit)?
Do you tell your carriers how much you make off of them? Or do you tell your shippers how much you pay your carriers?
 
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artmax said:
You’re assuming that the shipper knows the rate that the brokerage pays the carrier - the shipper can have difference between brokerages in the tens of dollars. It might be for example 1500 vs 1475.

Where as the carrier might be getting paid 1300 or 900 - just because the carrier is getting stuck with a low rate doesn’t mean the shipper is aware of anything. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Like the 455 load I posted above - do you really think CH Robinson tells their client they cover ON-QC for 455(+2% profit)?
Do you tell your carriers how much you make off of them? Or do you tell your shippers how much you pay your carriers?
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Not on purpose. I’ve accidentally sent my shippers carrier rate cons a couple of times, and in both cases I felt relieved (and a little embarrassed) that they could see how little I was making on their loads.
 
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Freight Broker said:
Not on purpose. I’ve accidentally sent my shippers carrier rate cons a couple of times, and in both cases I felt relieved (and a little embarrassed) that they could see how little I was making on their loads.
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Man I made this mistake on Monday.

Was exhausted and added the wrong email group...

I made exactly $45 dollars on that particular load.
 
senditover said:
Poor Balkan kid working out of Serbia and being used as a pawn to post such ridiculous rates because his boss in Chicago is trying to maximize as much profit as possible, as if outsourcing for cheap labour wasn't enough for them already... What happened to America first?
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If Tito was still around Yankee exploitation like this wouldn't be allowed, he'd be a proud line worker for Zastava
 
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