Cheap Freight of the day

loaders said:
If a broker has received a number of quotes that are less money than what you quoted, it sounds to me like it is you that is out of touch, not the broker . I am not now, nor would I ever defend cut rate, low ball brokers, but in todays more aggressive marketplace, many carriers are quoting rates for some lanes at much lower prices than a year ago. As well, it is not the brokers responsibility to “consider pick up/delivery costs”, that is your job and to quote your services accordingly. Remember, it is only a crummy, low, stupid rate until a carrier accepts it, then it becomes the market rate for that lane on that day.
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They (carriers) are only doing it too get freight on the wagons. No one was quoting stupid low rates in 2022 where they? No the brokers yes the brokers have driven rates down to keep their bottom lines up TQL CHR etc etc have all went out with the slasher mentality and cut cut cut same as 07 -08 or so they say they have had too anyway, Carrier's will not willingly go out and cut a rate so that it is a money losing load why would you. Brokers on the other hand could care less so long as some slob takes it. Yes dumbasses fault for saying yes, I have always found it funny how it is only the brokers clients that demand freight rates at money losing rates. Carrier clients must be a different breed or so our friends the brokers want us to believe. Yes clients have asked about rates as they have their ears to the ground also but not a one wants it done at 90 cents and a buck some of the asses are offering. Spin it as you may Loaders but you only see what you are doing we carriers see what the rest are up too as well. Big difference and you can defend your cohorts all you wish but far to many are back to being douches all about them. Not all and to the brokers and carrier's paying fair ( not over or under but a rate that has a margin for both parties) thanks.
 
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I get it. There are far too many brokers who receive quotes from carriers at say….$1000.00. They then go back to their customers and quote them $1000.00. Now unless they are magicians, there is no way you can make a profit doing this without squeezing the carrier to do the load for less than they quoted. Perhaps they are trying to secure a piece of new business, or maybe their customer has demanded a better rate, or as you say, they are trying to maintain their bottom line…who knows. You are right, other than what I read on Inside Transport,, I have no idea what the big brokerage houses are doing and how they are driving rates down. However here in our world, we have seen some of our regular inbound rates from the US get quoted at a lower rate today than last year. The rates we are receiving today on loads to Western Canada are dramatically lower, to say nothing about rates for loads returning from the West. This isn’t the result of us pressuring carriers for a lower rate, this is the way an unregulated, free market system works. Call it supply and demand if you wish, or call it stupid, inexperienced carriers making bad business decisions (which is probably more accurate). As I said, all it takes is one desperate carrier to accept a crappy rate and as far as the market is concerned, that is the rate….for today anyways. Perhaps that is how the big brokerages operate, I can’t say, but speaking for my firm and I believe a large number of small to medium sized brokerages, it is better to be a fair, consistent business partner. It is so much easier to move your freight when it has been quoted properly and fairly.
 
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loaders said:
If a broker has received a number of quotes that are less money than what you quoted, it sounds to me like it is you that is out of touch, not the broker . I am not now, nor would I ever defend cut rate, low ball brokers, but in todays more aggressive marketplace, many carriers are quoting rates for some lanes at much lower prices than a year ago. As well, it is not the brokers responsibility to “consider pick up/delivery costs”, that is your job and to quote your services accordingly. Remember, it is only a crummy, low, stupid rate until a carrier accepts it, then it becomes the market rate for that lane on that day.
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If any carrier is running a load for cheap and broker is happy about it, doesn't mean i'm out of touch. I wouldn't move our company truck for cheap rate. Brokers shouldn't dictate the rates. It should be the carrier. We are the one's with 150k equipment, insurance, driver pay, fuel cost and operational cost. A broker saying it's not brokers responsibility of looking at pickup/delivery cost is the perfect example of what we carriers have been claiming for years that they should......Don't pick and choose and say we should work together when it benefits you only and understand the operational cost of a carrier. You need service so pay for it..... Shipper has the freight and carrier has the asset. Broker is just a middleman who shouldn't be deciding what and how a carrier should be paid. If a shipper is being cheap ass, educate them !!! That's one of our responsibility as a broker or carrier.
And as mentioned before, we do work with many shippers directly and none has reached out to us to cut rate to rock bottom. Moreover, we have few shippers with whom we work directly and through brokers and i see the rate difference. Yet, the broker will ask every few months to cut down rate as "customer" doesn't want to pay.

Carriers don't expect crazy money but want a reasonable and respectful price by which they can run the truck and make some profit.
 
Cheap rates have been around since the wheel was invented and they will be for eons to come. The reason these dirt cheap rates continue to appear on load boards and in telephone conversations is because some carriers continue to accept them. If people said NO as often as they seem to say YES, we wouldn’t be having this discussion. As I have said many times before, I don’t care and it isn’t my business what a carriers costs are. Maybe he is an astute operator who runs an efficient company, maybe he isn’t. Maybe he gets a great incentive from his OEM of choice and buys his equipment at lower prices. Maybe he has his own in house maintenance facility or perhaps he farms it out. Maybe he pays his drivers by the mile, or maybe by the hour or maybe a percentage….I don’t care and I don’t want or need to know. The only thing I need to know and understand about any of my suppliers is that they are trustworthy, ethical and can provide good service at reasonable rates. Other than that, knock yourself out and run your business any way you want to do, however don’t try and suggest that freight brokers have this powerful, mystical power that enables them to convince carriers to accept freight at rates they know are not compensatory. Carriers are in the drivers seat in every single transaction whether it is with a broker or a direct customer. Come on guys….just say NO to cheap freight!
 
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loaders said:
Cheap rates have been around since the wheel was invented and they will be for eons to come. The reason these dirt cheap rates continue to appear on load boards and in telephone conversations is because some carriers continue to accept them. If people said NO as often as they seem to say YES, we wouldn’t be having this discussion. As I have said many times before, I don’t care and it isn’t my business what a carriers costs are. Maybe he is an astute operator who runs an efficient company, maybe he isn’t. Maybe he gets a great incentive from his OEM of choice and buys his equipment at lower prices. Maybe he has his own in house maintenance facility or perhaps he farms it out. Maybe he pays his drivers by the mile, or maybe by the hour or maybe a percentage….I don’t care and I don’t want or need to know. The only thing I need to know and understand about any of my suppliers is that they are trustworthy, ethical and can provide good service at reasonable rates. Other than, knock yourself out and run your business any way you want to do, however don’t try and suggest that freight brokers have this powerful, mystical power that enables them to convince carriers to accept freight at rates they know are not compensatory. Carriers are in the drivers seat in every single transaction whether it is with a broker or a direct customer. Come on guys….just say NO to cheap freight!
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Unless you're Driver Inc company, then say yes to cheap freight. To hell with all the guys that follow the rules.
 
I guess we all need to be more strategic in deciding what freight to take and what freight to pass by. There is one good thing about cheap freight.. if you're not hauling it then likely your competitors are choking on it because someone is hauling it.
 
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The song remains the same; this will never change.

Brokers paid or bonused by margin they make off of loads don't give two hoots if you can cover your expenses; when you're gone, they will find another sucker.

It's an excellent time to examine your situation and determine how you ended up where you are and how to get your business to where you want it to be.
 
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loaders said:
Cheap rates have been around since the wheel was invented and they will be for eons to come. The reason these dirt cheap rates continue to appear on load boards and in telephone conversations is because some carriers continue to accept them. If people said NO as often as they seem to say YES, we wouldn’t be having this discussion. As I have said many times before, I don’t care and it isn’t my business what a carriers costs are. Maybe he is an astute operator who runs an efficient company, maybe he isn’t. Maybe he gets a great incentive from his OEM of choice and buys his equipment at lower prices. Maybe he has his own in house maintenance facility or perhaps he farms it out. Maybe he pays his drivers by the mile, or maybe by the hour or maybe a percentage….I don’t care and I don’t want or need to know. The only thing I need to know and understand about any of my suppliers is that they are trustworthy, ethical and can provide good service at reasonable rates. Other than, knock yourself out and run your business any way you want to do, however don’t try and suggest that freight brokers have this powerful, mystical power that enables them to convince carriers to accept freight at rates they know are not compensatory. Carriers are in the drivers seat in every single transaction whether it is with a broker or a direct customer. Come on guys….just say NO to cheap freight!
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No doubt, carriers accept cheap rates but they have to. Imagine having your equipment parked with generating no revenue, payments going, insurance going, paying salary to employees, drivers asking for work. It's high time, brokers take some accountability for these rates. Expecting A grade services with D grade prices.

And it should be a brokers responsibility even though you don't want to be a part of it - knowing and covering carriers every cost from getting load picked up to deliver and you bill the customer. If that city cost is occurring because of your load, you should be taking over it. If industry people won't understand and become the part of change, it will never change and we all can continue complaining about rates, carriers, brokers on these forums forever.
 
Scammer911 said:
No doubt, carriers accept cheap rates but they have to. Imagine having your equipment parked with generating no revenue, payments going, insurance going, paying salary to employees, drivers asking for work. It's high time, brokers take some accountability for these rates. Expecting A grade services with D grade prices.

And it should be a brokers responsibility even though you don't want to be a part of it - knowing and covering carriers every cost from getting load picked up to deliver and you bill the customer. If that city cost is occurring because of your load, you should be taking over it. If industry people won't understand and become the part of change, it will never change and we all can continue complaining about rates, carriers, brokers on these forums forever.
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Knowing what your costs are and pricing your services accordingly is the carriers job, not mine, or any broker’s. Some carriers operate more efficiently than others, some are good, professional business people, others…not so much. If ABC Trucking can make a profit on a certain lane at an agreed price, why would anyone pay XYZ Trucking more for the same lane? Because their operating costs are higher? Because they pay their drivers more? Because they don’t have a good handle on what their costs actually are? If you accept cheap rates “because you have to”, then this situation will continue indefinitely and cut rate brokers will continue to prosper.
 
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Scammer911 said:
No doubt, carriers accept cheap rates but they have to. Imagine having your equipment parked with generating no revenue, payments going, insurance going, paying salary to employees, drivers asking for work. It's high time, brokers take some accountability for these rates. Expecting A grade services with D grade prices.

And it should be a brokers responsibility even though you don't want to be a part of it - knowing and covering carriers every cost from getting load picked up to deliver and you bill the customer. If that city cost is occurring because of your load, you should be taking over it. If industry people won't understand and become the part of change, it will never change and we all can continue complaining about rates, carriers, brokers on these forums forever.
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Do you know the operating costs of the brokerages? How about your clients, Costco a Steel Mill? I think that is a pretty unreasonable statement, considering economies of scale and all sorts of differences in operation styles, locations etc. Having a general knowledge of the current market value of a lane, permit costs, tolls, FSC. Sure to be a good broker you need an understanding but I sure as heck wouldn't assume your operational costs and bottom line.
 
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duke22 said:
Do you know the operating costs of the brokerages? How about your clients, Costco a Steel Mill? I think that is a pretty unreasonable statement, considering economies of scale and all sorts of differences in operation styles, locations etc. Having a general knowledge of the current market value of a lane, permit costs, tolls, FSC. Sure to be a good broker you need an understanding but I sure as heck wouldn't assume your operational costs and bottom line.
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Exactly. People should stay in their own lane. I will keep an eye on my overhead and expenses and carriers should do the same with theirs. If you can provide me with good service at an agreed rate, I don’t care if you take that money and blow it all in Las Vegas! It is not up to me to question whether or not you are handling your affairs properly. One thing is certain, if you continue to accept cheap freight, chances are good you won’t be around long to complain about it.
 
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Brokerage is like the ED medication alot of you have to take. Sure you could have Cialis - but there's also a generic brand that does the same/similar thing and still affords you the ability to buy some ice cream for your date as well. AND WHO DOESNT LIKE ICE CREAM!?!?

We know why the rates are the way they are - because the system sold your quality of life out and replaced it with folks that will work as hard or harder for less. Now your quality of life is dropping instead of raising the imports to the previous "Canadian Quality of Life".

But ya, brokerages are bad and they should know your operating costs. How about your government sticks up for your well-being and the future of this industry, no matter where you come from.
 
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My two cents...

Going back and forth about blaming brokers or blaming carriers is not going to solve anything. Carriers: just try to get your own customers - good luck because the rates will be a lot lower than you think. Brokers are struggling with carriers knocking on their customers doors constantly offering amazing never heard before prices. Then you get the customer and find out the hard way the reason why you got them.

Freight rates are low right now for the following reasons:
  • Too much capacity - there are too many trucks for the loads available
  • Carriers burning through equity - Carriers with newer equipment are burning through their equity by charging just enough to cover operational expenses and cash flow with no regard to their capital costs.
  • Illegal operations - some carriers are skirting the laws to their benefit.
  • Lack of enforcement - jurisdictions all over are not forcing entities to be lawful.
  • Nefarious operators - scams are plenty right now taking advantage of anyone who will let them.
  • Market share purchase - large brokerages have deep pockets and are willing to purchase market share now that carriers are willing to drop their rates.
  • Slow reaction time - look at Prime; it's been over six months and carriers owning assets haven't paid for those leases. Caledon has huge truck yards paying agriculture taxes.
  • Victims take too long to react - drivers not getting paid wait too long before taking action, I've seen some carriers with 180-day outstanding invoices looking for recommendations on this forum. This does not push the right people out.
  • Directionless economy - with the election in the US and one coming next year in Canada the North America economy is in a directionless state. The economy is waiting to see what happens next.
Let's face it - these are tough times for asset-based carriers. In my opinion the negative spread between spot price and contract price has never lasted this long. This is largely in part of some of the reasons listed above. It's death by a thousand paper cuts right now - what are you doing to avoid the paper cuts and outlast the other carriers? Everyone in this market is struggling right now.

Nobody who has been in this business for a while likes the position, they are in, brokers and carriers alike. Focus on your own business practices and decide if you're in or you're out.
 
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Jim L said:
My two cents...

Going back and forth about blaming brokers or blaming carriers is not going to solve anything. Carriers: just try to get your own customers - good luck because the rates will be a lot lower than you think. Brokers are struggling with carriers knocking on their customers doors constantly offering amazing never heard before prices. Then you get the customer and find out the hard way the reason why you got them.

Freight rates are low right now for the following reasons:
  • Too much capacity - there are too many trucks for the loads available
  • Carriers burning through equity - Carriers with newer equipment are burning through their equity by charging just enough to cover operational expenses and cash flow with no regard to their capital costs.
  • Illegal operations - some carriers are skirting the laws to their benefit.
  • Lack of enforcement - jurisdictions all over are not forcing entities to be lawful.
  • Nefarious operators - scams are plenty right now taking advantage of anyone who will let them.
  • Market share purchase - large brokerages have deep pockets and are willing to purchase market share now that carriers are willing to drop their rates.
  • Slow reaction time - look at Prime; it's been over six months and carriers owning assets haven't paid for those leases. Caledon has huge truck yards paying agriculture taxes.
  • Victims take too long to react - drivers not getting paid wait too long before taking action, I've seen some carriers with 180-day outstanding invoices looking for recommendations on this forum. This does not push the right people out.
  • Directionless economy - with the election in the US and one coming next year in Canada the North America economy is in a directionless state. The economy is waiting to see what happens next.
Let's face it - these are tough times for asset-based carriers. In my opinion the negative spread between spot price and contract price has never lasted this long. This is largely in part of some of the reasons listed above. It's death by a thousand paper cuts right now - what are you doing to avoid the paper cuts and outlast the other carriers? Everyone in this market is struggling right now.

Nobody who has been in this business for a while likes the position, they are in, brokers and carriers alike. Focus on your own business practices and decide if you're in or you're out.
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As usual - words of wisdom from Jim.

Have a good Friday everyone.
 
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One of the many things that I feel is wrong with today’s society is the need to “blame” someone for your own misfortune or challenges. Whether it is immigrants supposedly taking jobs, or driving up housing prices, or causing the Snickers bar shortage, rich companies squeezing out smaller ones, the Irish, the Italians, etc, etc., etc. it is high time that people looked in the mirror and realize there is only one person to blame….and that is the guy/girl looking back at you. You are the master of your own destiny.
 
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