RATES what is going on

Regulation of the transportation industry is a long dead issue. Other than establishing safety standards and insurance requirements, no one is willing to have the decision about rates taken out of their hands, either by the government or the industry itself. This low rate environment is nothing new. Learn to operate leaner and smarter, service the hell out of your customers both direct shippers and brokers, and wait for the tide to turn. The lessons learned today will serve you well going forward.
There are no "lessons to be learned"..you have your opinion,like others here, doesn't mean I have to agree, and certainly doesnt mean you are correct. This topic was brought up for discussion,despite my favoritism for regulation, as it has been conversed many times by many different people outside of this chat room...surely the solution cannot be done overnight,but rest assured it will be pursued by many,most surely the smaller companies that are paying to have their finances taken care of,and the owners with the shorter pockets,in order to keep those Niche companies around,which is neccesary to keep the larger ones in line.
It is a topic of opinion,which we are all entitled to,and respectfully value.
 
As Michael alluded to in an earlier post, many years ago transportation in Ontario was regulated….severely so. The Ontario Highway Transport Board controlled who could operate in which region, how many and what type of equipment they could run and what they could charge for their services. They limited the number of players in the industry through a strict, difficult to obtain licensing procedure. A carrier who wanted to expand into a new region or offer a new service had to appear in person before the board along with his customer and a high priced transportation lawyer to plead their case and present proof that this service was required. As a result of there being so few players, rates were high with little to no competition amongst transport companies. It was soon obvious that this type of regulation stifled innovation and kept rates artificially high. The system protected the current licence holders and restricted access. Needless to say, regulation was not the cure all for this industry then and I doubt very much if it would be now. But, that is just my opinion.
 
As Michael alluded to in an earlier post, many years ago transportation in Ontario was regulated….severely so. The Ontario Highway Transport Board controlled who could operate in which region, how many and what type of equipment they could run and what they could charge for their services. They limited the number of players in the industry through a strict, difficult to obtain licensing procedure. A carrier who wanted to expand into a new region or offer a new service had to appear in person before the board along with his customer and a high priced transportation lawyer to plead their case and present proof that this service was required. As a result of there being so few players, rates were high with little to no competition amongst transport companies. It was soon obvious that this type of regulation stifled innovation and kept rates artificially high. The system protected the current licence holders and restricted access. Needless to say, regulation was not the cure all for this industry then and I doubt very much if it would be now. But, that is just my opinion.
Pretty sure that was Canada wide regulations
 
At least safety was considered a priority in those days. Not even a glimmer of that now on the 401.

Run junk equipment and work cheap with a butt in the seat who hasn't a clue.
 
At least safety was considered a priority in those days. Not even a glimmer of that now on the 401.

Run junk equipment and work cheap with a butt in the seat who hasn't a clue.
yep but more government anything is usually bad and in this case I would tend to say it would be a clusterfuck because today's governments could screw up a two car funeral.
 
The reason why large fleets have moved away from spot business to LTL, dedicated, freight capacity solutions (ie freight brokerage) is because everyone gets stuck in the same rut. You have the ups and the downs - when things are up people think those times are there to stay. Truth is that it's a vicious cycle, and these valleys in the market are ones only the well capitalized and well thought out businesses can get through.

There are many smaller companies that manage this well, but far too many that don't.
 
The reason why large fleets have moved away from spot business to LTL, dedicated, freight capacity solutions (ie freight brokerage) is because everyone gets stuck in the same rut. You have the ups and the downs - when things are up people think those times are there to stay. Truth is that it's a vicious cycle, and these valleys in the market are ones only the well capitalized and well thought out businesses can get through.

There are many smaller companies that manage this well, but far too many that do
 
As Michael alluded to in an earlier post, many years ago transportation in Ontario was regulated….severely so. The Ontario Highway Transport Board controlled who could operate in which region, how many and what type of equipment they could run and what they could charge for their services. They limited the number of players in the industry through a strict, difficult to obtain licensing procedure. A carrier who wanted to expand into a new region or offer a new service had to appear in person before the board along with his customer and a high priced transportation lawyer to plead their case and present proof that this service was required. As a result of there being so few players, rates were high with little to no competition amongst transport companies. It was soon obvious that this type of regulation stifled innovation and kept rates artificially high. The system protected the current licence holders and restricted access. Needless to say, regulation was not the cure all for this industry then and I doubt very much if it would be now. But, that is just my opinion.
That may be the solution,by making strict procedures for licensing,in comparison to the so called system that is in place now. We can go on for hours about who and what proper training was provided to many of the drievrs that are on the road,and the owners that allow them to run with 80,000 + lbs of dynamite. There is a reason why that is allowed to happen! and in no time the culture will swallow up the industry,and trust me, when that day comes, we will circle back to the regulations needing to be implimented.
There are many reasons outside of just $$$ that would need to be tabled...that is just the cap on the latte.
Once again just my opinion. :)
 
There is only one solution to resolve all of this, and that is to regulate the trucking industry once again.
NOT THE GOVERNMENT OR THE PROVINCES TRUCKING ASSOCIATIONS, an educated group that would establish standard rates,for every corridor,along with the Domestic and US/Canada weekly fuel charts that would apply, and then customers and freight brokers, can choose the carriers that provide the service, and the ones that have been surviving by butchering the rates, and customers settling with poor service for cheap trucking, will be slowly dissolved in an industry they should have never been in to start.

This industry controls the economy,and it is shooting itself in the foot.
Hope is the only word, and depending on our millennials,who sure as hell dont want to spend 3 weeks of the month in a truck on the road, to make a living...we will need the governing body to recruit and keep transportation on its feet....or we will be right back to where we are,with the butchers and service failures running the roads.
I disagree - the supply and demand model is the only way to regulate it. It is working its way through our industry right now as we speak. You want this change because the way it is now it is negatively affecting you.
This industry does not control the economy, this industry is totally dependent on the economy. The better the economy is the more trucks are needed. The economy needs to be straightened out because of what happened during COVID. The economy is reacting to all those issues that have presented themselves and are nagging at the bottom lines of everyone involved. Once it is sorted out and businesses start to make money in a manner that is somewhat controllable and predictable the economy will even out.

Unfortunately for the transportation industry, that control part comes to us to bear the brunt and we have to live through it until then or die trying (ie close up shop/park trucks).
 
The only regulation I would agree to is to enforce the laws already in place. There is a grave lack of enforcement in our industry. The democratically elected government's job is to protect its citizens. They do this by debating and putting forward laws that the senate put in place.
Unfortunately they do not provide the funds to enforce. Until they can enforce all the laws currently in place there is no value to putting in more regulation. Enforce the laws and you will quickly see those items that are failing and you can enact a law regarding that issue.

i think you'd be surprised at how quickly our current industry woes would fix themselves if serious consistent enforcement with penalties would take place. All our discussions on this board seem to circle around some issue that should be defined already. Driver Inc, (ahem sorry, Incorporated Drivers) is one perfect example that rises to the top.
 
The only regulation I would agree to is to enforce the laws already in place. There is a grave lack of enforcement in our industry. The democratically elected government's job is to protect its citizens. They do this by debating and putting forward laws that the senate put in place.
Unfortunately they do not provide the funds to enforce. Until they can enforce all the laws currently in place there is no value to putting in more regulation. Enforce the laws and you will quickly see those items that are failing and you can enact a law regarding that issue.

i think you'd be surprised at how quickly our current industry woes would fix themselves if serious consistent enforcement with penalties would take place. All our discussions on this board seem to circle around some issue that should be defined already. Driver Inc, (ahem sorry, Incorporated Drivers) is one perfect example that rises to the top.
Exactly! There are more important concerns for our industry to prioritize, certainly enforcement being one of them. Truckers complaining about low rates reminds me of farmers complaining about either too much rain, or not enough rain. Unfortunately, it is part of your chosen career.
 
That may be the solution,by making strict procedures for licensing,in comparison to the so called system that is in place now. We can go on for hours about who and what proper training was provided to many of the drievrs that are on the road,and the owners that allow them to run with 80,000 + lbs of dynamite. There is a reason why that is allowed to happen! and in no time the culture will swallow up the industry,and trust me, when that day comes, we will circle back to the regulations needing to be implimented.
There are many reasons outside of just $$$ that would need to be tabled...that is just the cap on the latte.
Once again just my opinion. :)
Have to agree with you on the training perspective ... the 125 hour MELT program does not a truck driver make !!!
Really, it's the barest minimum to get a license. Government expects carriers to top up the training. Well, carriers who are desperate for drivers to run trucks that simply turn wheels to generate cash flow are not going to top up training.
For me, I put them through 170 hours of school, plus it takes about another 6 to 8 weeks of mentoring to get a driver to a place where I am comfortable putting him/her in a truck by themselves. That is pure, unrecoverable, cost.
Jim is right though ... enforcement of existing laws and safety regulations would go a long way towards thinning out the herd.

Being as there is not a lot of freight out there, I have time to relay a couple stories this morning that you all may enjoy.

1) About 6 or 7 years ago now, the good people from Fanshawe College came by and asked if there was anything they could do in the Simcoe campus that would benefit us/trucking. Fortunately they alerted me with a phone call to set up an appointment as it gave me some time to think about it. When they got here I relayed this; The transportation industry needs drivers. We can't use them until they are 21 years old. They get out of high school when they are 18 years old. That's 3 years we need to keep young people interested in the industry. If any of you have kids you know full well that if they "take a year off" and get a job before going to college, they never go to college. The same principal applies where drivers are concerned. I suggested to Fanshawe that they create a minimum 2 year, and preferably 3 year, college course that would go a long way towards making young people road-ready, and set them up to be successful owner-operators. They could teach them things like math, basic accounting, financing, economics, healthy living, basic mechanics, English/French/Spanish/Hindi, and numerous other subjects in addition to actual driver training. The course could be sponsored by industry to reduce student cost. At the end of the day (3 years down the road) we would have capable young drivers in the industry that would actually know how to run, at a minimum, a successful owner-operator business, and at maximum, their own company. A win-win for everyone. The people I met with liked the idea. The people at Fanshawe London did not. And ... here we are today !!!

2) My CVOR has a 27% violation rate. Have a guess at who gets picked for an MTO audit. Go ahead ... guess !!! Ya, me !!!!
This was a virtual audit. It took me roughly 7 hours over 4 days to get all of the information to the auditor who audited roughly 70% of my fleet. It took the auditor 3 1/2 weeks to complete his findings and present them. Unsurprisingly to both myself and the auditor we passed with an 87% score, and no tickets. That's an excellent carrier score my friends :) ... provided I get my violation rate below 15%.
What triggered the audit was during COVID we hit a 64% violation rate. Why was that you might ask? A lot of our lanes run between Toronto and the Niagara gateway. During COVID scale inspectors would write you up if they found something (anything) wrong, but would not write a clean inspection report if they did not find anything wrong. Now a violation rate is the bad inspections as a percentage of good inspections. What happens when you don't get any good inspections ... your violation rate goes through the roof. It's odd that north of the Niagara River we were one of the worst carriers in existence and south of the Niagara River, we are superstars. To be fair the auditor knew this going in.
Even the auditor was in disbelief that he was having to conduct this audit.
My point is, while this auditor is busy auditing my fleet, which we both knew going in did not need to be audited, he is not auditing the scrap fleets that are out there that do need to be audited. Frankly, a waste of precious resources. It takes a year just to train a roadside/scale inspector. I have no idea how long it takes to train an auditor, but it has to be at least another year, and more likely two or three years after a significant tenure as an inspector. That's our government for you. Lots of good ideas, exceptionally poor execution.
 
Exactly! There are more important concerns for our industry to prioritize, certainly enforcement being one of them. Truckers complaining about low rates reminds me of farmers complaining about either too much rain, or not enough rain. Unfortunately, it is part of your chosen career.
Think of the rain as the economy. You always get too much or too little. Never exactly the right amount ... LOL
 
My point is, while this auditor is busy auditing my fleet, which we both knew going in did not need to be audited, he is not auditing the scrap fleets that are out there that do need to be audited. Frankly, a waste of precious resources. It takes a year just to train a roadside/scale inspector. I have no idea how long it takes to train an auditor, but it has to be at least another year, and more likely two or three years after a significant tenure as an inspector. That's our government for you. Lots of good ideas, exceptionally poor execution.

I want to say unbelievable, but I believe it. What a joke!
 
The only regulation I would agree to is to enforce the laws already in place. There is a grave lack of enforcement in our industry. The democratically elected government's job is to protect its citizens. They do this by debating and putting forward laws that the senate put in place.
Unfortunately they do not provide the funds to enforce. Until they can enforce all the laws currently in place there is no value to putting in more regulation. Enforce the laws and you will quickly see those items that are failing and you can enact a law regarding that issue.

i think you'd be surprised at how quickly our current industry woes would fix themselves if serious consistent enforcement with penalties would take place. All our discussions on this board seem to circle around some issue that should be defined already. Driver Inc, (ahem sorry, Incorporated Drivers) is one perfect example that rises to the top.
 
If you circle back to the statement I made about the industry having it own governing body, ( not the Government or Trucking associations)then that elected board, could take control of the decision making to enforce the existing or new laws to be put in place, and stream out the companies that are dipping the industry into the cesspool,and allow these companies that take pride in this industry, to succeed and be rewarded for their services provided....regulation makes alot of unstable companies ill at ease.
The financial cost may with all the legalities involved, may hurt early, but after all the sewage is diverted, it will be along term financial gain, and it will be the best for all involved, and will allow this industry to develop a reputation that MAY and I say MAY intrigue the millennials insert their widescreen in the bunk, and make Trucking an occupation to be proud of...gonna take time and dedicated people...but this industry has been around a long time,like prostitution, and it will live on for many years to come. Just like everything else that gets old, the regulation standards and laws would need to be polished,and then run and governed by that elite group.

Once again my opinion. :)
 
I also forgot to mention that I firmly believe that any form of transportation,whether it be air/rail/sea/land...controls the economy...not other way around,as they are fully dependant on any or all of these sources of transportation,or their business will crash real fast.
Once again my opinion. :