Any recourse for a carrier for Truck Not Used charge when absolutely not at fault? Hounding customers for a payment? Truck had to deadhead considerable distance too. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Truck Not Used
- Thread starter WALTERK
- Start date
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I believe this topic has come up for discussion before. If my memory serves me, I think the consensus was $50-$250 for “truck ordered, not used”. The distance a truck had to travel to position themselves for the load doesn’t have any effect on the amount of money paid for the cancellation. The decision to accept the load and deadhead to pick it up lies with the carrier. Of course, depending on your relationship with whomever you got the load from, there maybe some room for negotiation to lessen your loss. Whether your truck was around the corner, across town, or on the other side of the state, the decision to go and get the load, was yours.
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Not sure I agree with these comments all together. Let's say you need a truck in Orlando and I agree to send one down from Georgia somewhere. Truck gets there and the load cancels , so we get $50 - $250 ???? That's not right.
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I believe that if you are in Georgia and sending a truck to Orlando, you should negotiate this ahead of time. And verify all the details including calling the shipper before you move the truck. If the broker has a problem with you calling the shipper yourself, you should not accept the load. Don't dead head a truck for a broker you do not have a good working relationship with, either! 
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some brokers wont even pay dead head :/ reimburse lumpers/ scale tickets or even send comp check or fuel advances so yea...
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I am not talking about some freight pimp that I don't know , I am talking about getting paid to run empty and confirming the load and getting screwed last minute.
I believe that if you are in Georgia and sending a truck to Orlando, you should negotiate this ahead of time. And verify all the details including calling the shipper before you move the truck. If the broker has a problem with you calling the shipper yourself, you should not accept the load. Don't dead head a truck for a broker you do not have a good working relationship with, either!
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Jackhole, in that hypothetical case, I would assume that $250.00 would be more like it. However, where do you draw the line? A carrier can decide to run empty for 100 miles, 200 miles, hell even 800 miles if they are desperate enough. Our business, like most others, contains a certain amount of risk in its day-to-day operation. If a carrier decides to accept a larger degree of risk by running all those empty miles, should he be compensated when that turns out to be a bad business decision? As chica123 stated, these things can and should be negotiated beforehand. There is no reason to say before hand "hey, I am running a great deal of empty miles here. If this load goes sideways at the last minute, what I am going to get?"
Regarding Shayne's last post, I would not feel comfortable providing a fuel advance or comcheck to any carrier, unless it was for an owner operator that I knew very, very well. If a carrier doesn't have enough money or credit to buy his own fuel, I am not sure I feel confident with him hauling my customers freight. I know a lot of brokers will offer that, but not me. I like my suppliers to be financially stable.
Regarding Shayne's last post, I would not feel comfortable providing a fuel advance or comcheck to any carrier, unless it was for an owner operator that I knew very, very well. If a carrier doesn't have enough money or credit to buy his own fuel, I am not sure I feel confident with him hauling my customers freight. I know a lot of brokers will offer that, but not me. I like my suppliers to be financially stable.
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I've seen a few instances where a strange lane that we booked a carrier on the carrier does advise us in advance they are running 'x' miles to our shipper as a notice that should things go sideways they would expect greater than usual missed pickup fees. I don't recall any of those going sideways. Or course Rob, there was that one where CSR put i the wrong shipper and we sent you to TN but the load was in IL or something. Horribly embarassing.
I did have one where a carrier was booked out of WY to ON (3/4 load). They claim they broke down and arrived to the shipper 3 days late. When they arrived the shipper realized that the load was food grade and had to ship as TL (the carrier had other freight on the truck). Truck was refused loading and the carrier demanded a $1000 TONU. I took the point of origin of the truck when dispatched and applied a rate per mile to the miles driven to our shipper and actually offered the carrier a sum close to $500. Even the customer was understanding about it and was willing to assist with charges. Instead of taking the $, they posted something that is only partially english on a Google review. I called the owner and asked him if he wanted the $500 missed pickup in exchange for his employee removing the review. Never heard back. Customer is relieved.
In the end every situation will differ a little from every other, I've got to agree with Loaders points above and also Jackhole.
Keep well and keep safe out there,
Mike
I did have one where a carrier was booked out of WY to ON (3/4 load). They claim they broke down and arrived to the shipper 3 days late. When they arrived the shipper realized that the load was food grade and had to ship as TL (the carrier had other freight on the truck). Truck was refused loading and the carrier demanded a $1000 TONU. I took the point of origin of the truck when dispatched and applied a rate per mile to the miles driven to our shipper and actually offered the carrier a sum close to $500. Even the customer was understanding about it and was willing to assist with charges. Instead of taking the $, they posted something that is only partially english on a Google review. I called the owner and asked him if he wanted the $500 missed pickup in exchange for his employee removing the review. Never heard back. Customer is relieved.
In the end every situation will differ a little from every other, I've got to agree with Loaders points above and also Jackhole.
Keep well and keep safe out there,
Mike
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So, here's the difference between what load brokers do and what good carriers do ...
Yesterday I booked a truck with Jackhole to pick up a load for me. I asked him to move a truck from Southern Georgia to Northern Georgia to load, then bring the load into the GTA. I understood, without him telling me, that there would be a cost to acquiring said truck, and that he would also stop looking for freight since he had a bird-in-the-hand so to speak. The rate I proffered covered his requirements.
This morning, after all was committed, the load cancelled.
Had I needed to, I would have gladly paid him the full rate as agreed to in the first place. I asked him to do a job for me. It was not his fault the load cancelled. Neither was it mine. But, I asked him to do the job, so I owed him what was proffered, regardless of what my customer was doing for me.
Fortunately for me, Jackhole also understood my situation, and took that into account, and did not ask for the full rate. I still paid him his initial costs, plus his costs to move his truck to where he would have a load, which was 600 miles away, which all amounted to considerably more than a $50 to $250 "load broker" TONU. I do this for all the carriers that do work for me.
There are a number of reasons that I choose this way of conducting myself and my business, but the most important is that I respect, and value, the relationships that I build with partner carriers, and I am confident that these carriers (in this case I am sure) should the roles be reversed, would treat me with the same respect. I also know that when I have to call them again, they will happily take my loads.
For sure this does not happen to me often, and I am sure there are load brokers out there that are saying they simply can't afford those costs for as often as it happens, or that their customers will not pay for such cancellations, and so on, and so forth.
However, costs are costs, and they need to be compensated for. Why should a carrier be expected to absorb the costs of an inept broker, or a careless shipper? Bottom line is they shouldn't.
As a carrier, you should have a policy for such events and they should be clearly communicated to the brokers you deal with. If not, you have no room to complain.
As a broker, if you're not willing to compensate your carriers fairly in such eventualities, then you will be forever stuck with the bottom feeder carriers, if even they will work for you. Let's face it, without carriers brokers simply become an unemployment statistic.
Maybe the only real answers are that inept brokers should simply die on the vine, and brokers that serve careless shippers should just find a better class of customer.
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Unfortunately, cancelled loads cannot always be attributed to either “inept brokers” or “careless shippers”. They are a fact of life in this business and everyone has a different way of dealing with them. In most cases, when I ask a carrier if he is interested in one of my loads, a discussion regarding the present location of his equipment doesn’t take place. The rate I am offering, the type of load, shippers hours, etc, etc seems to occupy the bulk of the discussion. Unlike Michaels example, very rarely will we “ask a carrier to move his truck”,as the owner of that asset, we leave that decision up to him. If a desperate carrier, after having a truck sitting in Florida for three days, decides to take my load out of TN, back to Toronto, and that load cancels as he pulls into the shippers yard, I am sorry and I will attempt to get you as much compensation as I can. However, it was his decision, not mine nor my customer to travel that far.
Great job Michael
Is it going to be a good idea if we put all our terms in the signature so every time we reply to your email it will remind you of our terms and conditions?
There are only 2 main problems in our industry
1. Waiting charges Minimum amount for FTL & LTL if on time for Pickup and Delivery
2. TONU minimum charges and per-mile rate for deadheads if the load gets cancelled
In the end, I like to thanks all the broker as 99% of the time I never had an issue collecting the waiting time charges
Thanks
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Well said Michael. I understand completely and agree.
This doesn't happen to us a lot... but it has (and it will).
We try not to rely on just Email but also pick up the phone and talk to the shipper to confirm the load details before we send a truck. With all of our checks and balances things still happen from time to time and shit gets de-railed.
Although, I'm sure that there will be some that wont get it or will not agree.
This doesn't happen to us a lot... but it has (and it will).
We try not to rely on just Email but also pick up the phone and talk to the shipper to confirm the load details before we send a truck. With all of our checks and balances things still happen from time to time and shit gets de-railed.
Although, I'm sure that there will be some that wont get it or will not agree.
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How about this scenario. My customer and I are caught between a rock and a hard place trying to cover a load, and the only available truck is located 500 miles away. The carrier has agreed to run those empty miles and has reflected that cost in his rate. The customer is ecstatic that we were able to source a truck and is fully aware that the carrier is running a long distance empty to make this load happen. During the night there is a massive thunder and lightening storm knocking out electrical power over a large area resulting in the product that was slated to ship in the morning, not being ready. Load cancelled until further notice. If my customer is as understanding and happy as he was yesterday, maybe he will compensate the carrier for those empty miles, or maybe he won't. You know....Act of God and all that stuff. As a broker who wants to maintain a good working relationship with all his carriers, yes, I may have to shell out some of my money, over and above the standard $50-$250 to make this thing right. My point was and still is, where does one draw the line? In spite of all the precautions and checks Nawk refers to, sometimes shit happens....on both sides of the equation. A shipper waiting anxiously with his crew on standby to get a shipment moved only to find out that..."ah, sorry,. the turbo went on my truck, can't make your pick up". Should there be a cost associated with " Truck Ordered, Didn't Show Up? I am all for fair treatment, provided it flows both ways when things go off the rails.
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That's where judgement comes in.. Your sense of fair play as well as other factors will determine if and how much to pay. Also factor in the cost of not paying.. i.e. losing the carrier, bad publicity etc. .. paying the carrier may in fact be the cheapest way to go.
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So, in other words in this example, be thankful the carrier was only 500 miles away, as opposed to 1000 miles away, and write the cheque? Hopefully the now pissed off carrier doesn’t decide to inflate his empty mile cost to some unreasonable amount. People sometimes do funny things when life throws them a curve ball.
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I've been in this same scenario.. in my case it was deadheading trucks out of Tampa, FL for loads in GA and SC.. In both cases I paid. I didn't really want to.. but.. I implicitly accepted that risk when I booked the trucks. One can mitigate the risk I suppose by going back to the shipper and getting them to buy into the risk also.. ie. if your loads cancel then you agree to pay for the empty miles. Maybe the shipper will, or perhaps they will find alternative loads. In my case neither worked as both trucks were Canadian, and the shipper had no other Canadian loads to offer. One can also decline the truck from the outset based on the potential cancellation risk... go back to the shipper at the outset and tell them you don't have a truck for the load but that you will continue to work on it or give them the option to rebook with someone else... don't even mention the truck that is 500 miles away. Personally I will nolonger deadhead a truck 500 plus miles.. if that's the closest truck I have to the load then for all intents and purposes I don't have a truck for the load.
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I truly hope I am not reading into your post what I think I am reading, which is "too bad Mr. Carrier that there is now no load. Here's your $50.00 and have a nice day.".
The thing is you and your customer asked him to move there. He incorporated that cost in his rate. Now that there is no load, there is no rate, so he cannot be compensated for his cost to move.
Put the shoe on the other foot. Suppose your customer actually completed the order, and before it shipped their customer called and cancelled the order. Would they be satisfied to simply say "Oh well, too bad for us. I guess we'll just have to take the financial hit for this order that is no longer valuable to anyone."? Of course they wouldn't. Why would anyone expect a trucker to be any different?
Add to that, what if you asked him to move to a place where there is no other freight, and he now has to move back 500 miles to actually get a reload?
Maybe the right thing to do would have been to complete two load confirmations; one to cover the empty move, and one to cover the load. At least that way the carrier would have been compensated for his empty move, and you would a binding order from your customer.
Your previous post referring to "Truck Ordered - Did Not Show Up" I thought was quite appropriate. You are correct that carriers should be held responsible for their failures as well. It is not a one way street. Speaking for myself only, If I cost you money because of my failure, I am willing to step up to the plate. It's only right.
This might be a good place to recite the immortal words of Red Green:
Remember, I'm pulling for you. We're all in this together.
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Sometimes it really pays to look two or three moves ahead to identify potential problems.. a massive tonu due to a 500 mile deadhead can be avoided by not accepting the truck in the first place.. a Nike in reverse.. just don't do it!
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The big difference in your example Freight Broker, was that you were well aware from the outset that the trucks were deadheading many miles to get to your loads. Would you have been so eager to open your checkbook if no one had made you aware of the deadhead situation? In other words, you booked these loads as you usually would....."ready in the AM, skidded widgets, no appt. req'd., 40,000lbs. pays $2000.00.... good for you?" The carrier accepts your offer as if he was parked down the street from the shipper. No mention of "yes, I will take it, but I have to travel 500 empty miles so this load better not cancel".
Of course every situation is different and if I know ahead of time that the truck is deadheading a great number of miles to help me out, the compensation he receives will be different than that for the carrier who was just around the corner. But don't tell me after the fact that you sent a truck 500 miles the wrong way to get this freight. I am not asking anyone to do anything other than to say yes or no to one of my loads. If you want to deadhead to get it fine, if you don't, that is great too, catch you next time. If you really want it but feel uncomfortable taking on the risk of a cancellation, then let's have that discussion BEFORE you tell Mr Driver to boogie. Sorry guys, I don't want to sound like a prick on this and in 30 years of business I think it has only come up once or twice, but again, exactly where does one draw the line and say.....no, that was your decision, not mine?
Of course every situation is different and if I know ahead of time that the truck is deadheading a great number of miles to help me out, the compensation he receives will be different than that for the carrier who was just around the corner. But don't tell me after the fact that you sent a truck 500 miles the wrong way to get this freight. I am not asking anyone to do anything other than to say yes or no to one of my loads. If you want to deadhead to get it fine, if you don't, that is great too, catch you next time. If you really want it but feel uncomfortable taking on the risk of a cancellation, then let's have that discussion BEFORE you tell Mr Driver to boogie. Sorry guys, I don't want to sound like a prick on this and in 30 years of business I think it has only come up once or twice, but again, exactly where does one draw the line and say.....no, that was your decision, not mine?