Waiting time

hauling_ass

hauling_ass

Active Member
Mar 15, 2010
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Here's the scenario:

Confirmation from broker says to pick up at 2pm.
Truck shows up at 11am because he is in the area and he can get a couple of hours downtime.
Shipper insists on loading him right at 11am because they want to get 'er done. The broker is informed and is happy. BUT they run into a problem with how the load is configured and it takes them until 4:00 to get it finally loaded.
Should 3 hours waiting time be paid?
(Two hours freebee at either end was agreed on)

I would appreciate anyone's thoughts on this.
 
Whomever is ultimately responsible for the freight charges (shipper, consignee, someone else) will likely say that with the 2PM pickup apt, receiving the load and rolling by 4PM means no waiting time. Conversely, had you arrived at 2PM would they only have had you loaded at 7PM, or would they have done a better job at loading the truck correctly the first time knowing the 4PM deadline would incur extra charges? If it's a shipper that 'usually and regularly' takes 5 hours to load then I'd say someone better pay up. If not it'll be like pulling teeth to convince them to pay. Don't forget, there is a large majority of companies that prefer to find small details in order to avoid extra charges than to pony up despite costing someone time/money/frustration/lost opportunities/etc...
 
I think you should get something, maybe enough to keep the driver happy for his time.
 
We are definitely paying the driver. He is amazing and we will do whatever we need to do to keep him. What pisses us off is the fact that he did show up early and he is the one that said that the load wasn't going to be safe.
In hindsight, we should have told the driver to wait until 2pm - and let everyone stay late on a Friday night.

Thanks to lowmiler88 for the support and thanks to freightfwd the truth (even if no one really wants to hear it :()
 
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Been working for over 15 years ( not that much but still... ) in the industry, mainly as a 3pl
If we go by ' the rules ' yes, no waiting time would have to be paid...BUT
I ( personally ) would try to get something for sure! At least a couple of hours!

IMO, it's a give give situation - carrier arrived early, driver took the time to inspect the freight to check if it was secured, etc.....

I would definitely try to give something. Even if it's out of my pocket....

Hope you'll end up having something back hauling....
 
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Wish we did the job for you misto27. Unfortunately, we are getting zip, zero, ziltch - not even a, "job well done!" We'll know for next time...if there is a next time.
 
Why should any one in the transportation industry work for free? I keep hearing 2 hours free for loading and 2 hours free for unloading is the industry standard. Who made this alleged "standard ?" Certainly not the carriers or drivers. It is expected, however, if you ask the people in the manufacturing sector or any 3PL if they will work for 4 hours free every day the answer is a resounding "NO!" Stuck at the border for inspection, de-vanning, paperwork problems. That's also free. Not the customers problem. It's the cost of doing business! Yes it is and it should be covered for by whoever is paying to move the freight. I could go on and on. Any other industry out there that gives away their time for free and that of it's employees? I don't like the idea of E-Logs, however, when it's mandated it will be a game changer.
 
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I'm not considering 2 hours at loading and unload free, but included in the rate giving by the carrier.
I do agree with you sawgrass, but as it's the ' industry standard', maybe more carriers should raise their rates a little to make sure it's really included....
Local work, I disagree with 2h included on both ends, that's for sure.
Stuck at the border - no waiting time included, customer has to pay! Happened to me a lot in the past ( and will surely happen in the future also ) and customers always paid / will pay. Unless the driver is stuck there for an outside reason which doesn't have anything to do with us / the customer...but if it's a paperwork problem, or my customer's broker who's not willing to participate, then yes, surcharges will apply and be paid, that's for sure!

Cheers everyone! Keep smiling! Gotta love transport! ;-)
 
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Great attitude misto27! This was definitely a reminder to us to dot our 'i's and cross our 't's. I'm sure it would have turned out differently if the driver had refused to let them put anything on the deck until the specified time.

Appreciate all the feedback gang!!!
Have a great day and be glad it isn't snowing! ;)
 
Agreed that waiting time isn't free ... but built into the rate. A lot of people seem to think that transport rates are a function of miles, but actually they're a function of time. And industry custom developed the rule of 2 hrs free on each side; except for local cartage.

This is a difficult situation because the pu appt was already set. Hopefully the broker has enough margin to absorb this sort of thing. I know I'd likely do that as well, it just sucks because margins aren't exactly fat in brokerage these days.
 
Times have changed though and what was once thought of as reasonable is no longer acceptable in today's world.
What some still don't seem to understand is time is money.

None of you would work up to 4 hours per day for free so why expect the drivers and carriers to 'eat' that time. Drivers are limited to a daily 13.5 hour window in the U.S. and 16 hour period within Canada to earn a living. When they get screwed around like this it costs them...

If it weren't so pathetically sad.. It would be laughable how many still don't 'get' it..
You wonder why drivers are leaving the industry in droves or why you can't find drivers but yet here's a perfect example of why and yet some are still sticking to the biggest line of crap out there..

The old and very tired.. " It's included in the mileage rate".

Sawgrass.. You hit the nail on the head my friend..

 
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I cant believe that there is even discussion on this.
If the guy arrives early and they chose to load him and it takes 5 hours he is entitled to 3 hrs waiting time. Simple as that.
 
I hope that by having this discussion, anyone who gets in this situation will be sure to have everything in writing or make the shipper wait until the appointed time to begin loading. The broker refused to pay - wish they were first-class like the people who weighed in!
 
The broker is a wimp who didnt properly explain what the rules are, and now he is afraid to risk upsetting his customer. The carrier is also a wimp if they let them get away with it.
 
When the shipper started loading at 11AM, that action changed your apt time to 11AM. 1PM-4PM is waiting time applicable. The shipper should realize the simple logic. Almost everyone here does!

Funny, I had a carrier call me just now and ask me for 5 hours of waiting time for a pickup. BOL says 12:30PM - 6:30PM except the driver left near 1:30 to 'do other pickups' and returned near 5PM to get loaded. We're on the thread of waiting time so I thought I'd throw this one in the mix.

Keep well,
Mike
 
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MikeJr - you gonna pay it??

I think we need a list of excuses. Maybe if they are numbered, it might make it faster when they start shoveling the manure.
 
We pay for enough customer mistakes, carrier mistakes and our own mistakes. This isn't an order with us is it? I've a pile on my desk but not seen this one as of yet.

Excuses are meaningless when building strong relationships, they come from people that don't care about what they do (or from lack of respect for whom they speak to).

Keep well,
Mike
 
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Not you Mike. From what I've seen, you would have ponied up. This was with a big carrier with a logistics department - which makes it worse because they know how things work. Like 'whatiship' said - the shipper started loading our truck; it took five hours; ya pay him for three. Simple.

Just an important lesson for us.

(I was asking if you're going to pay for the guy who showed up, left and then came back - and wants waiting time. )
 
Not 5 hours of waiting time.

Poll: How much do I pay?
Arrived 12:30PM, departed near 1:30PM
claims arrived back at 5PM, departed @ 6:30PM

I've got the final revision on my desk including some extra costs to the carrier. I'll update shortly.

Mike
 
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