This is a new one for me!

R

RK in AB

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Sep 24, 2010
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Airdrie, AB
10
I received an invoice from a carrier for some LTL they were supposed to do for me. It turns out that the carrier that brought it to Canada is not the same as my confirmed carrier. Once I got the invoice as saw that, I contacted the carrier of record and asked him to let me know what he was supposed to get paid for the load so I could pay him directly. HE WOULDN'T TELL ME! He said it was OK to pay the other carrier. I explained to him why I wouldn't do that, "If they don't pay you my customer could get charged again" and I didn't want that. He said don't worry, they will pay me. I sent him an email asking that he release my customer, the shipper and my company of any possible future charges. He didn't send me that email. Turns out the invoice from my contracted company was factored so I called the factoring company and left a message for someone that I won't be paying it and why and to please call me back. No response from the factoring company. I got a call from the original carrier asking for payment. I told them that I can't pay it and why and they wanted to get the other carrier on the line and have him tell me it is OK to pay. I told them I need a new invoice from the carrier of record and I will pay him what he had agreed to and they can get it from him if he was already paid. Now the carrier of record is asking for more than the original amount! I told him I know how much the original carrier was going to pay you so sign my fax accepting that amount so I can have a cheque issued. No response. I gave them until end of day Friday or nobody gets paid. I think both of these carriers are shady considering that they both won't give me answers. They are both based out of California and the owner of the carrier of record is the driver of the truck. 1 man show.

I can't honestly bring myself to pay someone for double-brokering my freight and the other carrier is trying to force me to do it. My offer to him was fair and he tried to stick it to me. I've never refused to pay someone if they are up front and honest with me. There has to be a line somewhere in the sand. We are a carrier as well as brokering freight. I know what it's like to get screwed from both sides. Hitting a carrier in the wallet for double-brokering is the only way to deal with this. Sometimes doing the right thing doesn't feel like you're doing the right thing.
 
a new one

I have been in this predicament myself a couple of times. I offered the delivering carrier the amount I brokered the freight out for, not the amount he agreed to with the double brokering entity. I could have realized a windfall with the difference in what the delivering carrier agreed to originally but that could be misconstrued as unethical. If the delivering carrier wanted to pay the outfit that gave him the load the difference in rates as a fee or commission, that's for him to decide.
 
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New one

Activet, normally I would pay the agreed amount to the proper carrier. In this case, there were some things that I didn't type simply because it takes me a long time to do that. The carrier was evasive when I asked him how much he was doing the load for and when I told him what I had agreed to pay, he still wanted me to pay the other guy. That threw up a red flag and now I get a bill for even more than the original amount?? I was concerned for the carrier in that I didn't want him to get screwed. I'm getting the impression that these two are playing a game. I've been burned once and I'm not about to let it happen again. There have been several times when my freight has been double-brokered and I have tracked down the carrier of record and paid them the original amount. I don't think there is anything wrong with having them tell you they were getting $1000 and me saying that it just went up to $1350 because the other guy is out of the loop. But tell me to pay the other guy anyway, that's a problem waiting to happen.

Some companies stop caring about paying as soon as they find out the load was double-brokered. I went to the trouble to find the carrier and try to arrange a fair payment. In truth, my obligation ended when the freight got double-brokered and I could have walked away then. My contract was with the original carrier and anything after that is no longer my responsibility.

If you were the carrier that hauled the load would you tell me what you were supposed to be paid or would you give me the run around and then ask for more? Keep in mind, I don't have to do anything if I don't want to. No contract, no confirmation, no agreement, no pay. When you try and be nice and people give you the run around, I have to ask myself why. It's rarely a good reason.
 
ask myself why

RK in MB said:
When you try and be nice and people give you the run around, I have to ask myself why. It's rarely a good reason.
Click to expand...

Sorry RK in MB. It wasn't my intention to make you type so much, but I understand your frustration. It does indeed sound as if there is some duplicity or collusion going on with those two. Especially, now that their asking for more than the original amount. I supposed you must have shocked them by trying to be equitable. I agree with you in that at this juncture, I would be loath to pay either of them without a quitclaim, or some form of indemnification for both you and your customer.
 
Sounds to me that the delivering carrier (who you mentioned was a one truck operation) is probably an owner operator who has his own name and operating authority etc. Contrary to here where owner op's generally run off the carriers cvor, insurance plates etc in the States it is not un-common to hire independant's who run under thier own name and authorities. 99% if not 100% of their loads come from a bigger carrier but for tax ( or ego) reasons they prefer to run as a seperate company.
Not trying to "make light" of the serious problem of double brokering when there is intent to fraud but I dont think that this is the case.
 
So how about a few names so the rest do not fall into the same situation. I remember reading something similiar out of California and I cannot for the life of me remember where (getting worse everyday) I read about it. I'm sure I will remember Saturday night and forget all over again by Monday.
 
RK in MB - do you have any clause on your confirmation sheet regarding double brokering? You may want to add a clause that under no circumstances is your shipment to be given to another carrier without your written consent or it will result in $0.00 payment. Something to that effect. This is one of the clauses in the past that has been added to carrier confirmation.
 
Even if this one man show was getting direction from a larger company, I didn't have his authorities or Insurance information. Had the carrier told me that it would be a guy with his own authorities I would have been OK with it as long as I got his info and knew ahead of time. I've been down that road before too. I've said to many people I've worked with, "Why do I want to pay someone to do things wrong? What incentive is there to do things right if I do that?" I'm a reasonable person, and I just want to know who's pulling my freight and will it deliver on time? Things happen that cause delays, I understand. Just be honest with me so I can be honest with my customer. We've had O/O's with their own authorities and if we book a load form them, the person giving us the load is made aware that the load with cross with carrier X instead of us and this is why.

The carrier I brokered the load to was AKAL Freight in Lathrop, CA and the carrier that pulled it was RKC Trans LLC in Manteca, CA. 2 miles apart. Maybe the one works for the other, I don't know and by not telling me up front I'm suspicious for good reason. I reported them to Internet Truckstop regardless. That's where they saw my freight. They can plead their case to them.

This search and peck typing really is tiring!!! ha ha ha :)
 
cdaustransporter

IF FREIGHT IS DOUBLE BROKERED INVOICE WILL NOT BE ACCEPTED

ORIGINAL BILL OF LADING WITH ORIGINAL SIGNATURE MUST ACCOMPANY INVOICE ALONG WITH DOCUMENTATION SHOWING THE PARS OR PAPS NUMBER USED.

This is copied and pasted right off my load confirmation. No question that I don't pay someone to double-broker my freight. My rate for the move was $3250 USF for 12 pallets from CA-MB. That's a fair amount of cash to not collect because you wouldn't tell the truth.
 
RK
I understand your point and it is a valid one. All I am saying is that neither the contracted carrier or the delivery carrier thought they were doing anything wrong. Most carriers have "partner carriers" who they work with and trust to help balance lanes or handle each others extra loads. It can work well for everyone involved however carriers should tell their customer when they do it and be prepared to provide the insurance info of who ever is handling the freight.
 
"Partner Carrier", "Agent" don't you just love that BS. If it is not your own trucks under your authority then I would consider it brokered. Call it what you want but to me it is all the same, just because you call them a partner/agent or any other term of the day it doesn't change the fact that it wasn't the carrier's truck or an o/o operating under their authorities. It doesn't matter what arrangement a carrier has with a partner, if a load was given to a specific carrier and they moved it with someone not under there own authorities then that to me is brokered.
 
I agree with cdaustransporter. It doesn't matter what you call it, it's brokered. If you are a carrier and going to give the load to the partner carrier at least let me know that. Suppose I give a load to a partner carrier who in turn gives it to another partner carrier, etc. We've seen the Mercantile Act postings on this site before. In theory, the same load could pass through several companies and if one of those doesn't pay someone else, the customer gets screwed by having to possibly pay a second time. How many of you want to do that to your customer by simply accepting "partner carrier"? Perhaps accepting that helps those people who want to screw trucking companies. If everyone was diligent and decided not to pay under any circumstances, the practice of "skimming a couple of bucks" would stop and we wouldn't need this forum anymore. I agree that if you refuse to pay, a driver somewhere gets screwed. If you refuse to "fax it and forget it", maybe they won't.
 
Interlining with Partner carriers

There are a lot of valid viewpoints here. The real issue is about informed consent. I don't mind if a carrier utilizes the services of other fully qualified, properly licensed and insured carries or "local agents". But I need to know this vital information for due diligence reasons. It protects me and my customer. How embarrassing it would be to hear in a courtroom that you "knew or ought to have known"!

Here are the conditions on our confirmations:

THE FOLLOWING TERMS AND CONDITIONS ARE TO BE CONSIDERED AS HAVING THE SAME FORCE AND EFFECT AS IF THEY WERE
PRINTED ON ANY BILL OF LADING ASSOCIATED WITH THIS SHIPMENT.
By picking up this shipment for carriage, the carrier noted herein, hereby agrees to the following covenants:

1. Not to sub-contract or interline this or any part of this shipment without the express written approval and consent of Active Transport Services. Failure to prove notification will result in payment being made to the delivering carrier only.

2. Not to solicit, either directly or indirectly, any business concerned with the carriage of goods from the shippers or consignees noted herein, for a period of one calendar year from the issue date of this booking. Contravention will result in forfeiture of any and all accounts or freight invoices due the carrier noted herein as
liquidated damages.

3. To immediately notify Active Transport Services if this shipment, for any reason, cannot be picked up or delivered on the dates and times specified herein.

4. The carrier has all legal authorities and valid cargo insurance coverage to safely effect the transportation of goods described herein, and to indemnify Active Transport Services against any financial loss associated with the carriage of these goods due to any acts of commission, omission, or neglect by the carrier or his agents acting on his behalf.

I would appreciate any constructive criticism.
 
Interlining with Partner carriers

I'm glad this post has created some discussion. I think it is fair to say that many of us use interline carriers. We use them because we trust them. Would you allow me to use an interline carrier if you have a good relationship with me? I would hope so. You trust me so I would hope you trust my judgement. Would I allow the same of you. Of course because I trust you. If I post a load on the link, find a carrier and do a reference check on this site and get back mixed revues, I won't trust an interline carrier chosen by my new carrier friend because I can't afford to be wrong and I don't know them well enough. However, if that carrier says to me that they are going to use a partner carrier to move the freight, I will decide if I am comfortable with that and if I am, I need (not want) to have their information. In a worst case scenario, if I have that information I can bypass the company I brokered the load to if they don't fulfill the obligations they have to the interliner. Activet put it best with the term informed consent. It is our responsibility to do the due diligence for our customer and protect their interests. If my customer insists it move on my authorities, my O/O with his own authority will be running under mine this trip, period. He'll know why it has to be that way because he will have been told when hired that this situation comes up from time to time. If you don't do that for your customer you can't complain if your customer goes elsewhere, it's their choice.
 
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