Snow/weather - is there a double standard?

[MikeJr]

I'm sure we all experience this (between December and April), how do you respond to these sort of scenarios?

Delay Delivery: Consignee is hot for their delivery, truck is en route but parked due to extreme weather and fear for driver safety? Typically we (I hope we all do the same thing) verify there is extreme weather and explain to the consignee/customer that it's better to park and be safe than risk their freight ending up in a ditch or worse someone being injured or killed in an accident. Safety first!

Delay loading: Truck arrives on site (Tuesday morning) after driving through major weather issues to find 25 trucks lined up as Monday nothing got shipped and the parking lot has 2-3 feet of snow. Truck on site 24 hours before the lot is plowed and he finally gets loaded followed by a prompt request for waiting time.

I get why waiting time could apply, but it's just funny that I never tell a carrier that they will incur late fees for parking their trucks in the snow (safety first), but when snow impedes or backs up a shipper, driver time is money.

Is this a double standard?

Keep well,
Mike

 

[Freight Broker]

Yes, but most carriers are reasonable in applying detention only when there's culpability on the part of the shipper/broker. Bad weather is no one's fault, and we all roll with it as best we can. In my 15 years as a broker I have yet to have a carrier ask for detention due to a weather related event.

 

[MikeJr]

So I should tell Warren Gibson to take his 11 hours of WT requested (he was on site for 21 hours) sorry, no go? Note the missing detail I hadn't included prior - we were in contact with the shipper prior to truck arrival confirming pickup apts, etc... No one ever said - we're backed up, please delay the pickup, etc...

Does this change the result?
Mike

 

[Igor Galanter]

Well, from my point of view. Shipper shouldn't expect carrier in a bad weather condition. But, keeping parking lot from snow is a must.. In case some "cowboy" will show up. Happened to me before too and I was paid all WT in line. Once shipper had to pay for tow too.. Loading docks were on a grade and all icy...My nickel...

 

[Freight Broker]

That does make a difference. The shipper does have some responsibility to advise incoming carriers of problems. This would have allowed you to reschedule the appointment and would have allowed Warren Gibson to regroup in terms of managing their driver. In my view the shipper failed in his responsibility and therefore becomes responsible for paying detention. If I were you I'd ask for detention from your shipper but wouldn't expect any (especially if it's a large outfit). You're faced with picking the lessor of the two evils...pay Warren Gibson the detention out of your own pocket or tell them to go pound sand. If I were you (and the shipper pays me nothing) I'd take the initiative and would contact Warren Gibson to work something out.. something that won't break your bank and will at least keep the trucker reasonably happy. Pick the lessor of the two evils and negotiate a middle ground you can both live with.

 

[MikeJr]

My perspective is the same - there was opportunity for the shipper to advise there were delays/issues at loading and so failure to notify implies that the original apt time is still a go.
Not sure how many plows they have in that part of KY, but I do know of several Canadian drivers that were experienced enough to hack it on the roads!
Keep well,
Mike

 

[Jim L]

We had the same problems in KY this week. We understand that there are issues and potential waiting time for weather but I would have to say that 21-24 hours of detention is a bit much. The shipper dropped the ball in this situation and I hope you can get something out of them.

Remember, when the truck can't get there because of bad weather, its just bad weather and there is nothing you can do if the roads are closed, or too dangerous. Its a different story if the truck gets there and the plant can't produce. They should have advised the broker/carrier to come back another time. The carrier in this case can make the decision to either wait for the load or take a different one depending on what is being offered. If the broker doesn't want to find another carrier, then he can arrange some sort of detention pay to keep him on the load. At least the driver could go someplace to get something to eat or take a shower.

 

[MikeJr]

I'm with you Jim,

I've just hung up with Willie and have agreed to pay every hour he's requested. It'll be up to sales to determine if it's out of pocket or if the customer will be held accountable. Always remember there are 2 different agreements and 2 different relationships at play here. One with a carrier and one with a customer, the volume of business with either may have impact on how we approach accessorials.

Jim, I hope all your drivers are back home safely.

Keep well,
Mike

 

[Michael Ludwig]

One item you might have missed ... unless it was a team, that truck can't work 24 out of 24 hours. Best he can do is 14 hours. For 10 hours he needs to sleep. To back up their claim for waiting time Driver X better be submitting a log sheet that shows 14 hours on duty, not driving and 10 hours off duty.
The coercion rule is coming and you wouldn't want it said that you "coerced" that driver to sit there, at the ready so-to-speak, for 24 hours waiting to load.

 

[Freight Broker]

Paying the carrier in this instance is fully justified. If the shipper doesn't ante up then you'd have to wonder how much of a relationship you have there. Speaking for myself, any relationship that involves me being in the bent over position is not one that I'd like to remain in... hopefully the shipper does come through with some money for you...

 

[Michael Ludwig]

Not disagreeing with that at all. The shipper, in this case, certainly is responsible for the waiting time. On the other hand, the carrier asking for 24 hours of pay is a little much. Having said that, it all depends on how much the carrier is charging per hour. If he's at $50.00 an hour, then the 24 hours of wait time is justifiable. If he's charging work rates of $125.00 to $150.00 an hour, then he's gouging at 24 hours.
No matter which way you slice it, the shipper cost the carrier a work shift. A work shift costs at least $1,250.00.

 

[Freight Broker]

The 24 hours would be over the top at any rate unless he was expressly told to wait. Surely the shipper or broker, after one or two hours, would either send the truck away with a TONU or make alternative arrangements with the carrier. To simply have the driver sit for 24 hours with no direction is silly.

 

[Michael Ludwig]

You would think so, but I've seen dumber decisions made ... LOL

 

[lowmiler88]

We are running into problems of showing up to receivers in the North East and much like our schools they are closed because of weather, it's gotten to a point at a couple of places we do switches they just leave the gate unlocked for us because they know we will be there. It is one of the strangest things I've seen places are closing at the possibility of bad weather how do they think we can operate when you show up to a sign of SNOW DAY, we bill if we can get a tractor trailer 500 miles someone can show up locally.

 

[MikeJr]

One item you might have missed ... unless it was a team, that truck can't work 24 out of 24 hours. Best he can do is 14 hours. For 10 hours he needs to sleep. To back up their claim for waiting time Driver X better be submitting a log sheet that shows 14 hours on duty, not driving and 10 hours off duty.
The coercion rule is coming and you wouldn't want it said that you "coerced" that driver to sit there, at the ready so-to-speak, for 24 hours waiting to load.

Morning,
Willie and I accounted for 'down time of 10 hours' as well as some time that would be considered included in the base rate. I don't feel I've been gouged and he's happy he's not paying the driver for this time out of company funds.
On the customer side, they understand the issue and more specifically the issue of regular communication before the truck arrived and no one ever saying 'delay the driver' or 'we have issues here' or 'we need to change this appointment'. In the end Sales will come to a fair agreement independent of that which I've agreed with the carrier.
While we prefer all parties are satisfied in the end, there are 2 relationships to consider and we'll do what we have to to maintain both - we need good carriers and good customers, not just an extra $5 today.

Happy Friday,
Mike

 

[MikeJr]

We are running into problems of showing up to receivers in the North East and much like our schools they are closed because of weather, it's gotten to a point at a couple of places we do switches they just leave the gate unlocked for us because they know we will be there. It is one of the strangest things I've seen places are closing at the possibility of bad weather how do they think we can operate when you show up to a sign of SNOW DAY, we bill if we can get a tractor trailer 500 miles someone can show up locally.

I see that sometimes too. I do wonder sometimes if certain states have reduced snow removal capabilities, sand/salt laying equipment and of course lack of good tires on motor vehicles (cars, trucks, all vehicles). Then we have our well-trained Canadian drivers who laugh at 6 inches of snow!!

Could be part of the issue of trucks showing up but no freight or no shipper?

Keep well,
Mike