Scummy Broker

[LrgCar]

Good morning Inside Transport Friends,

I’ve got an unusual situation for you today involving a well-known Canadian broker who seems to be playing some shady games with us. I'd appreciate your thoughts on this.

Here's what happened: We booked a Full Truckload (FTL) for pickup on 6/14. Ahead of time, I informed the broker that our receiver notified us, while the truck was in transit, that they were doing inventory on 6/14 and couldn’t load. They had the option to either recover the load or push it to 6/17. They chose to delay the loading to Monday and kept us on the load.


On Monday, we picked up the freight. The shipper used only half the trailer, which was fine since they sealed it and we sent a picture of the BOL and the sealed trailer. Now, here’s the twist: Four days after pickup, the broker contacts me and claims that we picked up a Less Than Truckload (LTL) and they can’t pay us for an FTL.

Their argument is that we didn’t call them after the driver was loaded to advise that only half the trailer was takem. However, the pieces on the BOL and the trailer match, which is all that matters to me. I don’t care if they ship one envelope or 60 pallets—if the load is moving exclusively, the entire trailer is theirs, and they can use it as they see fit. As long as all the details match, we document the seal and move the shipment.

The confirmation clearly states it’s moving as an FTL, with matching pickup numbers and all the details correct. Despite this, because the load was only half full, they want to pay for an LTL and revise the rate—after our truck traveled 3000 miles. I can’t wrap my head around how dense these guys are.


If you think we screwed up here, feel free to grill me LOL

 

[DIETCOKE]

@LrgCar - Don't think you screwed up at all.
I am finding that the larger brokers are not training their staff and they fail to understand some of the basic concepts of trucking. They see a loophole to pay less and jump on board. The load was sealed and as long as you delivered with seal intact- you should be paid the FTL rate.

 

[Jim L]

It sounds like the shipper amended the load after it was originally given to you and after the inventory. The shipper probably told the broker but the broker didn't tell you that the load requirement changed.

I would bet that the shipper is not paying the broker for a full load and the broker is hoping to pass that mistake on to you.

You're stuck in a tough position. I'd be adamant that you did what you were told to do and that it was run as a truckload as expected. If they don't change their tune then you'll have to strong arm and maybe choose not to do business with them if this is not resolved in your favor.

Brokers have us carriers on the ropes right now and know that we need them so they're willing to take the chance to lose you as a carrier to make some cash. I guess you have to decide if you dig your heels in on principle or just take it on the chin and eat the lost revenue. Running cross country at an LTL rate is a tough one to take.

 

[AgentSmith]

Did the broker give you the number of pieces or pallet count on the rate confirmation? If it all matches then that is on them plus it was booked as a FTL.

Some carriers will call to confirm if there is only 1/2 load on board but most don't.

I will not tell the carrier if I have partial moving as a full unless I know them very well and always let them know the shipper will seal the trailer and consignee break the seal.

If there is lots of room on the trailer, many carriers will take the FTL rate and try to fill the trailer with more freight. When this happens something always goes sideways with the other freight and causes delays with my shipment.

Assuming this happened while in transit, a good scummy broker would wait until the load delivered before trying to reduce the rate, Doing this before delivery is just amateur hour.

If you still have the freight then inform them you will be breaking the seal, adding more freight and give them a new ETA to deliver based on LTL service.

Ask them why they are not aware of what their customer is shipping.

 

[LrgCar]

Did the broker give you the number of pieces or pallet count on the rate confirmation? If it all matches then that is on them plus it was booked as a FTL.

Some carriers will call to confirm if there is only 1/2 load on board but most don't.

I will not tell the carrier if I have partial moving as a full unless I know them very well and always let them know the shipper will seal the trailer and consignee break the seal.

If there is lots of room on the trailer, many carriers will take the FTL rate and try to fill the trailer with more freight. When this happens something always goes sideways with the other freight and causes delays with my shipment.

Assuming this happened while in transit, a good scummy broker would wait until the load delivered before trying to reduce the rate, Doing this before delivery is just amateur hour.

If you still have the freight then inform them you will be breaking the seal, adding more freight and give them a new ETA to deliver based on LTL service.

Ask them why they are not aware of what their customer is shipping.

No just listed as 1 Dry Van Exclusive. They specifically told the driver to send photos of the sealed trailer to them. There is not chance you can add any freight to it, freight is 100 miles from the receiver, i can't really do much now plus it wont be even close to covering the gap between the the LTL and FTL rate.

 

[LrgCar]

It sounds like the shipper amended the load after it was originally given to you and after the inventory. The shipper probably told the broker but the broker didn't tell you that the load requirement changed.

I would bet that the shipper is not paying the broker for a full load and the broker is hoping to pass that mistake on to you.

You're stuck in a tough position. I'd be adamant that you did what you were told to do and that it was run as a truckload as expected. If they don't change their tune then you'll have to strong arm and maybe choose not to do business with them if this is not resolved in your favor.

Brokers have us carriers on the ropes right now and know that we need them so they're willing to take the chance to lose you as a carrier to make some cash. I guess you have to decide if you dig your heels in on principle or just take it on the chin and eat the lost revenue. Running cross country at an LTL rate is a tough one to take.

I'm sticking to my guns on this one, no way in hell am I eating up the cost of their mistakes. We do a lot of work with this firm and this one particular broker is well known bad apple. I'll be taking this up with their management and see where it goes.

 

[AgentSmith]

If they demanded pics of the sealed trailer then it was moving as FTL

Either @Jim L is correct or the broker was paid a FTL and is trying to make their margin through fines and penalties.

You mentioned you do a lot of work with this broker so don't do this, but if it was a one off and want to burn a bridge, call the shipper's Transporation Manager and explain what is happening to see if they are paying for a PTL or FTL

Depending on the load and commodity, I get pictures of the loaded trailer with the load securement devices in place before the driver departs the shipper. Compliance from the carriers is ok but not perfect, I don't fine them if they forget, just educate them for the next load.

 

[LrgCar]

If they demanded pics of the sealed trailer then it was moving as FTL

Either @Jim L is correct or the broker was paid a FTL and is trying to make their margin through fines and penalties.

You mentioned you do a lot of work with this broker so don't do this, but if it was a one off and want to burn a bridge, call the shipper's Transporation Manager and explain what is happening to see if they are paying for a PTL or FTL

Depending on the load and commodity, I get pictures of the loaded trailer with the load securement devices in place before the driver departs the shipper. Compliance from the carriers is ok but not perfect, I don't fine them if they forget, just educate them for the next load.

We send the BOL and pictures of the seal on every load to avoid situations like this. My issue is the lack of accountability coming from the broker, if you screwed up just admit it, why throw it on me. When my drivers screw up I dont go after anyone, we accept it and move forward. We are not perfect but we make sure we fulfill all requirements, the only thing they could come up with is that the driver did not call, which is not instructed anywhere.

 

[loaders]

Regardless of how much freight was actually loaded, the moment the shipper placed a seal on the trailer doors, the shipment became a Full Load. In my mind, it is the seal that “seals” the deal on this discussion!

 

[Fr8Guru]

I have a shipper who RARELY takes the full truck but every load is sold a FTL and paid as such. Higher value product that decently fragile. They'd rather ship it FTL then deal with damage claims.

This broker is either scum or untrained.

Be careful though, larger broker and burning a bridge could hurt.

 

[theman]

Sealed truck = full load. It's that simple.

 

[LrgCar]

I have a shipper who RARELY takes the full truck but every load is sold a FTL and paid as such. Higher value product that decently fragile. They'd rather ship it FTL then deal with damage claims.

This broker is either scum or untrained.

Be careful though, larger broker and burning a bridge could hurt.

I agree and also see why this is intended to be an FTL it's high value and very fragile, contains glass components so that's why they wouldn't want anything else with it hence the seal and documentation of it.

 

[Pinktruck4]

I feel like they realized there was an opportunity to scam a couple more bucks off the top and came back a couple of days later to change their mind.

If you demand pics of the seal, right there its FTL. Its also beyond shady that they would bring this up days after, if you catch the first time that your customer shipped half the load you can be a shady load pimp later on and capitalize on the chance next time, but again these people would have to have the knowledge to begin with. You even did full due diligence and sent them a picture of the BOL, how is it your fault they don't understand how big a trailer is? Why are you selling freight if you don't have an at least basic understanding of trucking that moves beyond how to sell the cheapest rate to the cheapest carrier calling?

Any hints which Canadian broker? C'mon...we can guess based on the color of their company logo lol.

 

[MLCAR]

I know I'm gonna get flack for this but, I would be thinking twice about delivering, till the issue is sorted out. Larger broker, smaller broker w.e it is, some how this industry has just become "roll the crap onto the carrier" for anything. Shipper messed up? all good carrier will do extra work, no need to compensate, Oh wrong delivery address? its only 50 miles away for the correct one? Rate stays the same, Receiver is short handed? wE pAy DeTENtioN aFTEr 3 hOuRS @ $30/hr (and this is not just TQL, starting to get this from other brokers as well). The old saying still stands "give an inch, take a mile" and for a very long time carriers have just let things slide.

And again not all brokers are scummy, and I'm glad to work with the ones that aren't, but we gotta stop letting the bad ones stay in business and thrive with their BS business practices and the hard work off our backs. Its pretty well documented on here how much I loathe TQL, but to my surprise we had a shipment with them, the agent took our rate, and when the shipper messed (forgot to label the product) TQL offered and agreed to pay us double to get the truck turned back. The trailer was in our yard and we had to get a driver out of bed to handle the screw up but we were compensated fairly for a mistake not in our control. At some point Carriers and Brokers need to draw the line in the sand. If its the shippers mistake, they have to be accountable for it. Not all business is good business, some are worth losing so you aren't losing.

 

[LrgCar]

I know I'm gonna get flack for this but, I would be thinking twice about delivering, till the issue is sorted out. Larger broker, smaller broker w.e it is, some how this industry has just become "roll the crap onto the carrier" for anything. Shipper messed up? all good carrier will do extra work, no need to compensate, Oh wrong delivery address? its only 50 miles away for the correct one? Rate stays the same, Receiver is short handed? wE pAy DeTENtioN aFTEr 3 hOuRS @ $30/hr (and this is not just TQL, starting to get this from other brokers as well). The old saying still stands "give an inch, take a mile" and for a very long time carriers have just let things slide.

Yup, its really only in our industry this happens. When my mechanic comes and works on my trucks, i may expect the work only to take 2 hours but if it takes them 4 hours, i dont decide what i pay for the extra 2 hours they hit me with the bill for 4 at their predetermined rate, there's no coming back and saying :"Hey can you please approve the invoice for 4 hours? pleaseee" no it's just here's the bill now pay it. Those things are non-negotiable. But why is it in our industry the carrier is expected to go the extra mile and then have beg to be compensated as if they arent entitled to their fair share. Pretty messed up if you ask me.

 

[EricG]

Good morning Inside Transport Friends,

I’ve got an unusual situation for you today involving a well-known Canadian broker who seems to be playing some shady games with us. I'd appreciate your thoughts on this.

Here's what happened: We booked a Full Truckload (FTL) for pickup on 6/14. Ahead of time, I informed the broker that our receiver notified us, while the truck was in transit, that they were doing inventory on 6/14 and couldn’t load. They had the option to either recover the load or push it to 6/17. They chose to delay the loading to Monday and kept us on the load.


On Monday, we picked up the freight. The shipper used only half the trailer, which was fine since they sealed it and we sent a picture of the BOL and the sealed trailer. Now, here’s the twist: Four days after pickup, the broker contacts me and claims that we picked up a Less Than Truckload (LTL) and they can’t pay us for an FTL.

Their argument is that we didn’t call them after the driver was loaded to advise that only half the trailer was takem. However, the pieces on the BOL and the trailer match, which is all that matters to me. I don’t care if they ship one envelope or 60 pallets—if the load is moving exclusively, the entire trailer is theirs, and they can use it as they see fit. As long as all the details match, we document the seal and move the shipment.

The confirmation clearly states it’s moving as an FTL, with matching pickup numbers and all the details correct. Despite this, because the load was only half full, they want to pay for an LTL and revise the rate—after our truck traveled 3000 miles. I can’t wrap my head around how dense these guys are.


If you think we screwed up here, feel free to grill me LOL

IMO you are 100% in the correct.

 

[NTravels]

I agree with most here, I think the broker either screwed up, or is trying to screw you. FTL was clearly noted on your Load Con, and the load was sealed. I consider that pretty concrete.

I was always a hard ass when it came to that stuff, maybe too hard, but whatever, I'd dig my heals in pretty hard sometimes. I'm not taking 1/2 my pay for the same level of service that was booked - why don't you just spit in my face while you're at it. They can go fk themselves, I don't care if we ever do business again if that's how you're going to treat us. That said, I am well aware what the market is like right now, the smart play is maybe weigh how much work I've done for this company in the last year, and gauge my course of action from there.

Some fights are worth having. Some are not.

 

[LrgCar]

I agree with most here, I think the broker either screwed up, or is trying to screw you. FTL was clearly noted on your Load Con, and the load was sealed. I consider that pretty concrete.

I was always a hard ass when it came to that stuff, maybe too hard, but whatever, I'd dig my heals in pretty hard sometimes. I'm not taking 1/2 my pay for the same level of service that was booked - why don't you just spit in my face while you're at it. They can go fk themselves, I don't care if we ever do business again if that's how you're going to treat us. That said, I am well aware what the market is like right now, the smart play is maybe weigh how much work I've done for this company in the last year, and gauge my course of action from there.

Some fights are worth having. Some are not.

I can't afford to take $4-5k hit on this doesn't matter how much I work for them, I have employees, trucks, trailers and facilities to pay for, i don't work for free.

 

[NTravels]

I can't afford to take $4-5k hit on this doesn't matter how much I work for them, I have employees, trucks, trailers and facilities to pay for, i don't work for free.

And that's exactly how I feel about it as well LrgCar. If you're going that route, try to deal with upper management if you can, and try to be polite/calm headed but firm footed in your stance. That way you won't sound like an assh*le, just stating facts - LoadCon says FTL. Shipper sealed trailer as FTL (so no adding freight from other vendors). I provided proof of sealed trailer. I hauled said load on time, per LoadCon. I expect to get paid as agreed per the LoadCon.

 

[Fr8Guru]

And that's exactly how I feel about it as well LrgCar. If you're going that route, try to deal with upper management if you can, and try to be polite/calm headed but firm footed in your stance. That way you won't sound like an assh*le, just stating facts - LoadCon says FTL. Shipper sealed trailer as FTL (so no adding freight from other vendors). I provided proof of sealed trailer. I hauled said load on time, per LoadCon. I expect to get paid as agreed per the LoadCon.

Just too add.

Talking to upper management calmly will probably go way further than immediately getting heated.

Most of the time when upper management gets involved, they expect to be yelled at and people throwing shit against a wall hoping something sticks.

Calm, logical thoughts go a long way (usually)