Question about double brokering

[Packrule]

Ok so I've been ont he 3pl side for many decades now. It gets more and more convoluted with these new carrier base in our country and their desire to take every load and then use a sister or friend only to then suggest it's their own company in some way. I just want to confirm with folks their thoughts on this.

I hired company Blackrock from regina to haul a load for me from GTA to Regina. Truck shows up with Dentro on the side. We know them and load them knowing the game likely was being played but it was late in the day and hard to make changes and new they were in Regina so figured out load would get there.
So after delivery questioned the carrier Blackrock about the hire. They claim that Dentro has OO's there and if they hire them as OO's they are effectively their truck. I mean i know exactly what this is it's double brokering plain and simple. But i get email after email explaining it away like i'm crazy and don't understand. So please folks just want the usual consensus here am i crazy or was this merely a double broker like i believe it to be.

Part of the explanation I got.

think you’re misunderstanding the situation.
Double brokering occurs when a broker re-brokers a load to another broker or carrier without the shipper’s or customer’s authorization while remaining undisclosed.
That is not what happened here.
Dentro is not a random “friend carrier” that we handed your load to. They are owner-operators working with us and operating under our authority. The truck that moved the load was associated with our company.
You may disagree with our operating model, but that does not make it double brokering.
You hired BlackRock, and BlackRock assigned the load to their OO. We did not re-broker or trade your load to another Carrier . The load was covered by owner-operators working with our company.

 

[tasuinam]

the name on the side of the truck would say Blackrock ... if they are O/O
any O/O we have is under our insurance - that sis the key .... if someone has their own authorities then they would still have on the side 'operated by' like when we had a Fed Ex contract ...

 

[AgentSmith]

Can you provide some details on BlackRock like the phone number and address?

Since you know Dentro, ask them if they were given the load by BlackRock

 

[Packrule]

Can you provide some details on BlackRock like the phone number and address?

Since you know Dentro, ask them if they were given the load by BlackRock

they are both in Regina and know each other well if I contact Dentro i'll get the same story. I know the answer and this is a two fold point to post this. To ensure I'm not crazy and to also share the information as we are seeing this almost weekly again these days.

Email info@blackrocklogistics.ca
Office 3267 Valley Green way, Regina, SK S4V 3R1

 

[theman]

Well, it's possible. It may have DENTRO in big letters but below it in small it could say operated under Blackrock. Not saying that it's 100% the case but it could be.

I know Highlight and Charger have multiple operating corporations - Highlight trucks have the HL logo on them but the operating company appears below. Charger trailers would show Charger while the trucks may actually show their operating companies. Challenger use to run some trucks under Elgin Motor Freight among other companies too ...

 

[AgentSmith]

There is nothing on this company, no google results from searching the phone number from the website, 306-912-2220, same with the phone number from Load Link, 306-351-3055, address is a house, domain registered in Dec 2025

The only thing I can find is from the The Saskatchewan Gazette, Struck Off The Register Pursuant To Section 290 lists 102082558 Saskatchewan Ltd. with the same address, 3267 Valley Green Way, Regina, SK S4V 3R1 that you provided

The website has broker vibes. BlackRock is playing word games but I think there is more to the story on the relationship between BlackRock and Dentro

To answer your question: Not crazy

 

[Jim L]

The real question should be,
If you give them the load, who do you make the cheque out to? Yes, they may be related, and work together, yada yada yada, but if there is a challenge regarding money, who will the courts side with? Will you and your customer have to pay twice or thrice? Who do you call when the load goes missing and will that person actually fix it? What happens if there is an insurance claim?
Everything may go all tickety-boo for a while, but when it goes sideways it is always a mess.

 

[Fr8Guru]

Ok so I've been ont he 3pl side for many decades now. It gets more and more convoluted with these new carrier base in our country and their desire to take every load and then use a sister or friend only to then suggest it's their own company in some way. I just want to confirm with folks their thoughts on this.

I hired company Blackrock from regina to haul a load for me from GTA to Regina. Truck shows up with Dentro on the side. We know them and load them knowing the game likely was being played but it was late in the day and hard to make changes and new they were in Regina so figured out load would get there.
So after delivery questioned the carrier Blackrock about the hire. They claim that Dentro has OO's there and if they hire them as OO's they are effectively their truck. I mean i know exactly what this is it's double brokering plain and simple. But i get email after email explaining it away like i'm crazy and don't understand. So please folks just want the usual consensus here am i crazy or was this merely a double broker like i believe it to be.

Part of the explanation I got.

think you’re misunderstanding the situation.
Double brokering occurs when a broker re-brokers a load to another broker or carrier without the shipper’s or customer’s authorization while remaining undisclosed.
That is not what happened here.
Dentro is not a random “friend carrier” that we handed your load to. They are owner-operators working with us and operating under our authority. The truck that moved the load was associated with our company.
You may disagree with our operating model, but that does not make it double brokering.
You hired BlackRock, and BlackRock assigned the load to their OO. We did not re-broker or trade your load to another Carrier . The load was covered by owner-operators working with our company.

As someone more on the brokerage side, I would consider this double brokering.

I've had the same thing happen to me, late in the day etc. I made the company prove they paid the other company before I released funds to the carrier and then promptly DNU'd them both.

I understand things come up but you are always better off just being honest, tell me my sister company or whatever term you wanna use has a driver. I'll set them up and pay them directly.


*edit - IF by some miracle Dentro/Blackrock have a legal relationship, man is that towing the grey zone and I would recommend they make changes, I imagine every legit broker who reads this will make a note of this for future.

 

[loaders]

I wee bit off topic, but how do the rest of my brokerage colleagues deal with “dispatch services”.? It is my belief that as long as you are paying the actual carrier who performed the work, it is a legitimate transaction . If that carrier wants to pay a finders fee, or a service commission, that’s between them. If you are paying the “dispatch service” directly however, it would be, or should be, considered double brokering.

 

[Fr8Guru]

I wee bit off topic, but how do the rest of my brokerage colleagues deal with “dispatch services”.? It is my belief that as long as you are paying the actual carrier who performed the work, it is a legitimate transaction . If that carrier wants to pay a finders fee, or a service commission, that’s between them. If you are paying the “dispatch service” directly however, it would be, or should be, considered double brokering.

I only deal with it in the states and is seems to work as follows.

Dispatch service contacts us about a load. States they are a dispatch service etc.

We agree to rate.

Dispatch service facilitates the set up of the MC number, the owner op is involved in the process since the links all get sent to his email. Insurance comes directly from the broker.

Almost always they factor with JD/OTR and we end up paying them.

We will only deal with them for 1 or 2 truck MC's. Any large carrier using a dispatch service will not be set up.

 

[Nawk]

The real question should be,
If you give them the load, who do you make the cheque out to? Yes, they may be related, and work together, yada yada yada, but if there is a challenge regarding money, who will the courts side with? Will you and your customer have to pay twice or thrice? Who do you call when the load goes missing and will that person actually fix it? What happens if there is an insurance claim?
Everything may go all tickety-boo for a while, but when it goes sideways it is always a mess.

100% agree with this.

When money get's tight at Blackrock and they delay payment to Dentro and Dentro goes after your shipper for payment... guess who your customer is going to look at.... You.

The long & short of it is... you hired an MC to do this move and a different MC picked up... they did not tell you they were going to Co - Broker, Re - Broker or Double Broker your shipment before they arranged it.

Had they done so... you could've made the choice to go ahead or find another carrier.

Like Jim said... you'd better contact the MC that actually moved the freight and pay them in order to avert potential issues later.

 

[YYZRIDER]

Dentro has a fleet of 100 trucks as per Safer. Why would they run as O/O for an unknown company in this industry? That is a red flag right there..
2nd point - Both companies may be related and playing the same game as mega carriers.

 

[artmax]

easy solve - ask their insurance provider to offer a full list of scheduled VINS - verify o/o VIN number with set list.

If it doesn't match you are like a duck on CNY.

 

[artmax]

If you are a 3PL please vet your carriers to the highest degree - there are companies without broker authorities trying to re-sell freight all day. How do they get this freight? It's not because they have direct contact with the shipper.

 

[MikeJr]

If you are a 3PL please vet your carriers to the highest degree - there are companies without broker authorities trying to re-sell freight all day. How do they get this freight? It's not because they have direct contact with the shipper.

Are you suggesting that carriers are unable to form relationships with shippers (or beneficial owners of the goods)? Why not?

Jim, Rob, carrier members - you guys have direct clients, right?

Keep well,
Mike

 

[artmax]

Are you suggesting that carriers are unable to form relationships with shippers (or beneficial owners of the goods)? Why not?

Jim, Rob, carrier members - you guys have direct clients, right?

Keep well,
Mike

70% of my assets are customer-routed; furthermore, I think going customer-direct is the best thing possible for a carrier - I'm just tired (from a carrier side) of getting requests for quotes from brokers without FMCSA authority. I have people telling me they are a Canadian non-asset broker and they don't need an MC to broker cross-border freight. Sometimes I get calls from trucking companies looking to cover FTL/LTL, and I wonder how they land a Fortune 500 company from Ahmedabad.

 

[MikeJr]

Good for you for not taking freight from unlicensed brokers. If everyone did the same, they would have to become compliant. If only shippers knew how to properly investigate the brokers they are working with. The more educated ones do perform checks on vendors, the uneducated ones just look at the price.
Then a problem happens and they wonder where they went wrong.

Keep well, keep rejecting unlicensed brokers,
Mike

 

[Jim L]

Good for you for not taking freight from unlicensed brokers. If everyone did the same, they would have to become compliant. If only shippers knew how to properly investigate the brokers they are working with. The more educated ones do perform checks on vendors, the uneducated ones just look at the price.
Then a problem happens and they wonder where they went wrong.

Keep well, keep rejecting unlicensed brokers,
Mike

It's our job as carriers, and the job of licensed brokers, to educate the shippers and receivers on the shenanigans of the marketplace and the perils of unlicensed brokers. They're in the business making widgets - not deciphering what an OPCF-21B means on a COI. Heck, most brokers in the industry do not know how to understand what is really insured on the COI. Most shippers don't even know to ask for a certificate.

Sure, that rate may be lower than what they're currently paying but it may come with some serious ramifications. That is how I get my direct customers - finding those who have been burned by some outfit saying they can get the rate lower.
I spoke to a guy today who was burned by a carrier who did not have cargo insurance. He thought it was mandatory and was wrong. Everyone I speak to I tell them that in this market you absolutely need to have a carrier that you work directly with or a freight broker that is qualified and does all your shipments. Having 25-50 contacts on an email blast is trouble.

 

[loaders]

Having 25-50 contacts on an email blast is like playing Russian Roulette with a large capacity magazine. Spin the chamber and hope for the best. I agree whole heartedly that educating shippers on the horrors of going with the lowest cost option is critically important. Just as brokers should refuse to work with unlicensed or improperly licensed carriers, carriers should try and only work with properly registered freight brokers. I know, the 75K surety bond is minimal at best, maybe covering a small handful of shipments, but it is better than nothing. Playing by the rules and being a licensed entity displays a commitment to being a serious, professional corporate citizen.

 

[martinwizz]

I wee bit off topic, but how do the rest of my brokerage colleagues deal with “dispatch services”.? It is my belief that as long as you are paying the actual carrier who performed the work, it is a legitimate transaction . If that carrier wants to pay a finders fee, or a service commission, that’s between them. If you are paying the “dispatch service” directly however, it would be, or should be, considered double brokering.

As far as we go, we accept the dispatch service but each of the carrier using the dispatch service wll have to register seprately with their own authorities and insurance for us to accept dealing with such a service. As said, the deal, comissission, bonus, wage, between them stays between them and one should pay the other for the dispatch service they buy. Not us, and certainly not be blinded by this type of operation. I add that once we explain, mst legit dispatch service do accept that we pay their "broker" So we are in line with your actions as well.