Shakey
Site Supporter
30
Pride Group - TPine
- Thread starter SCAM CHASER
- Start date
Not sure if anyone knows yet, but does this include TPine Financial? We received a couple invoices last week that were factored to them and want to avoid any issues form a carrier not being paid as a result.
Would be interested in a link to documents if/when someone gets them.
30
What would this mean for their Canadian operations? seems like all of the action is happening south of the border.
Shakey
Site Supporter
30
5
15
i would assume so as this is in regards to TPine group. i assume the financial arm is associated in that group.
30
Pretty sure it is all one big cluster,, Not going to be good,
5
I've heard from partners that it is confirmed CCAA protection, so lets see how it plays out now.
Shakey
Site Supporter
30
Sounds like it's all tied together. It's odd that someone would set up that way but guessing they never thought the good times would end.
15
Shakey
Site Supporter
30
Sorry, I was on my phone. I am not sure why it did that
20
Pride Group files for bankruptcy protection to restructure amid lawsuit - Truck News
Pride Group Holdings has sought creditor protection under the Companies’ Creditors Arrangement Act (CCAA), after lender Mitsubishi HC Capital America
www.trucknews.com
chairs have four legs
-1 leg = shaky place to put your butt
but metaphors aside, its chapter 11 they should be able to cut their losses with the leasing/sales side of things and keep everything else. Yellow went through multiple chapter 11's before throwing in the towel, and that was an extreme case. Pride will be fine, wounded egos maybe but fine.
Last edited:
5
I think they should cut the Logistics side, the only issue is if you read the 300 page case the default notices and all cross guarantees are the issues. There is a lot of cross guarantees and a lot of personal gurantees.
Ouch that can change things, I'm surprised that even for large million+ amounts that lenders still want a "personal guarantor". what's really the point of having business credit then?
30
There isn't, almost every bank will want a personal guarantee that's why most of these big owners don't keep assets in their own name. So when shit does hit the fan they come out unscathed for the most part.
This is what I understand how it goes down.
Two brothers start in 2010 buying and selling used trucks in Brampton - mostly to OO's and small fleets. (Pride Truck Sales)
Their success over the years leads them to buying and selling new trucks as a man in the middle.
They start renting new trucks (TPine Truck rental)
This success brings them to try in other large city markets. They buy real estate to facilitate the trucks that they are selling.
To facilitate more sales, they start a financing arm so they can finance new and used trucks. (TPine Leasing and Capital)
Now that they're financing, selling, buying and renting trucks they start with parts and service facilities because the contacts they have are growing. (Dixie Truck Parts and Pride Fleet Solutions)
Some of their customers are looking for work so they start a freight brokerage. (Pride Group Logistics)
While these entities are chugging along, they migrate into other cities and the US including buying logistics companies to help keep things moving.
Fuel wholesale and factoring of carrier invoices are the next step in the game (TPine Financial).
Insurance is the next step (Pride Global Insurance Company).
They have their fingers in all aspects of the freight market at this time. Each entity supports a different one. The factoring arm can glean information from invoices that the brokerage department can act upon. The service facility repairs used trucks cost effectively and expeditiously for resale. Used trucks in one area of the country is shipped to a different part of the country for resale.
COVID in 2020 happens and things go nuts a year later - every aspect of trucking is hyper-chugging along. There's lots of money being thrown around because everyone wants trucks, trailers, work, repairs etc. It was eye popping, and many shook their heads at the numbers. Pride Group is loving every minute of it - the money is rolling in. What can go wrong...
BUT
PRIDE was one of the significant entities in the COVID pandemic that was buying new and used equipment and pushing asset rates up and up. They fed this crazy opportunity. The number of carriers that entered into the market at that time is astounding and I feel that PRIDE was a big part of that. After the rise in asset prices, they are financing assets that were being bought at record high prices to small, new carriers and owner operators as interest rates are going up. Most of these OO and small carriers had little business acumen and little experience in the industry and most would not have been able to get into the market if it wasn't for PRIDE.
PRIDE saw big numbers and moved big numbers but now it slows down. Freight rates dive hard because of the overcapacity in the market plus the fact that most carriers had been pushed into a corner because of being heavily leveraged. OO's and small carriers can't make it and start to give back trucks. Then asset values decline and fast. There is no demand and the cash flow needed to keep all the PRIDE entities in the good books with those that PRIDE borrowed money from has significantly diminished. They too are heavily leveraged, and the piper is calling. One could possibly say that PRIDE is a de facto ponzi scheme - all aspects of each business entity have to keep growing and feeding the other entities or the whole empire crashes.
On the sidelines I saw this unfolding and should have bet money on it. There are some others in the industry, (truck and trailer dealerships, finance companies etc,) that also helped fuel the frenzy and got burned with buying equipment at high prices, but I don't think they moved anything near the amount of equipment that PRIDE did. We may hear of a couple of these entities in the future, but Pride Group is by far the biggest and the one with the deepest tentacles in the complete trucking market in most major Canadian cities. I cannot see how Pride will come out of this without being significantly clipped out of the market. We will see.
Two brothers start in 2010 buying and selling used trucks in Brampton - mostly to OO's and small fleets. (Pride Truck Sales)
Their success over the years leads them to buying and selling new trucks as a man in the middle.
They start renting new trucks (TPine Truck rental)
This success brings them to try in other large city markets. They buy real estate to facilitate the trucks that they are selling.
To facilitate more sales, they start a financing arm so they can finance new and used trucks. (TPine Leasing and Capital)
Now that they're financing, selling, buying and renting trucks they start with parts and service facilities because the contacts they have are growing. (Dixie Truck Parts and Pride Fleet Solutions)
Some of their customers are looking for work so they start a freight brokerage. (Pride Group Logistics)
While these entities are chugging along, they migrate into other cities and the US including buying logistics companies to help keep things moving.
Fuel wholesale and factoring of carrier invoices are the next step in the game (TPine Financial).
Insurance is the next step (Pride Global Insurance Company).
They have their fingers in all aspects of the freight market at this time. Each entity supports a different one. The factoring arm can glean information from invoices that the brokerage department can act upon. The service facility repairs used trucks cost effectively and expeditiously for resale. Used trucks in one area of the country is shipped to a different part of the country for resale.
COVID in 2020 happens and things go nuts a year later - every aspect of trucking is hyper-chugging along. There's lots of money being thrown around because everyone wants trucks, trailers, work, repairs etc. It was eye popping, and many shook their heads at the numbers. Pride Group is loving every minute of it - the money is rolling in. What can go wrong...
BUT
PRIDE was one of the significant entities in the COVID pandemic that was buying new and used equipment and pushing asset rates up and up. They fed this crazy opportunity. The number of carriers that entered into the market at that time is astounding and I feel that PRIDE was a big part of that. After the rise in asset prices, they are financing assets that were being bought at record high prices to small, new carriers and owner operators as interest rates are going up. Most of these OO and small carriers had little business acumen and little experience in the industry and most would not have been able to get into the market if it wasn't for PRIDE.
PRIDE saw big numbers and moved big numbers but now it slows down. Freight rates dive hard because of the overcapacity in the market plus the fact that most carriers had been pushed into a corner because of being heavily leveraged. OO's and small carriers can't make it and start to give back trucks. Then asset values decline and fast. There is no demand and the cash flow needed to keep all the PRIDE entities in the good books with those that PRIDE borrowed money from has significantly diminished. They too are heavily leveraged, and the piper is calling. One could possibly say that PRIDE is a de facto ponzi scheme - all aspects of each business entity have to keep growing and feeding the other entities or the whole empire crashes.
On the sidelines I saw this unfolding and should have bet money on it. There are some others in the industry, (truck and trailer dealerships, finance companies etc,) that also helped fuel the frenzy and got burned with buying equipment at high prices, but I don't think they moved anything near the amount of equipment that PRIDE did. We may hear of a couple of these entities in the future, but Pride Group is by far the biggest and the one with the deepest tentacles in the complete trucking market in most major Canadian cities. I cannot see how Pride will come out of this without being significantly clipped out of the market. We will see.
20
Good summary Jim - but I think you are missing the fact that their first rise on the asset based trucking side was fuelled by their acquisition of the properties and many of the assets/lanes of the then recently defunct BR Smith- Mississauga, Brantford, Fort Erie to name a few. Many people from BR Smith Logistics moved over to Pride Group as well, and for years Pride trucks pulling BR Smith tridems were a common sight. As I recall, the truck dealerships etc came after that initial expansion (based on BR Smith and Multiline) if memory serves correctly. They’ve added other carriers Loadex (100 trucks) Arnold in the USA (414 trucks) and many more that I’m sure that I’m not aware of.
5
Court documents tell the story of Pride Group’s troubles - Truck News
Court documents related to Pride Group Holdings’ filing for creditor protection paint a picture of a once-thriving transport and real estate conglomerate,
www.trucknews.com
