More Freight then booked for

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Mistoe

You are in quite a bad spot here.

It looks like you have a savvy shipper in this case. You aknoweledge the fact that this shipper has done this before.

Has this customer been with you a long time?
It is highly unlikely that they are being honest with you.

The odd mistake in freight description is acceptable, in that instance the rate must be corrected to accommodate the change.
The shipper cannot knowingly load more freight and not expect to pay for it!

You are being played here!
 
freight growing

Generally I handle this situation like this.

The carrier is given 25' of product to load, arrives and is given 32' of product. You only found out after the fact. The carrier is to blame.

Put it this way. The LTL carrier knows he has to keep track of his space and will likely have a strap or load bar or two on his truck. (we request these on "all estimated footage shiments")

The dispatcher should be telling his driver how many pieces, skids or feet of product to load. If the driver accepts more than what was to be loaded then you will give HIM the new rate for the new footage based on the customer rate. HE does not tell you how much he wants.

Let's say for argument sake the driver arrived and was only given half the freight, you bet your butt that the driver tellls his dispatch right away. Especially if he is on commision as they will expect a lower rate.

Why do we only hear from them after the driver has left, that the shipment grew. Not fair,If the dispatcher had of called you while the truck was still there you could have confirmed with the shipper that it actually grew in size or was loaded loosely. You could have explained to the shipper that the client would wan the freight laoded as safely but as tightly as possible in order to keep his shipping costs down.
If the driver is already gone you have no opportunity to ensure it was loaded up tightly and not just staged down for safer shipping.

Most of our customers would have a 1/2 tl , 3/4 tl and TLrate on file so I would go between my half anf 36' rate and prorate it this way.

Of course if the shipper admits the original order grew causing the growth, then the customer must pay for the footage used.

I hope this helps.

Hockeylover
 
Since when does a broker determine a carriers rate?

Hockey Lover, i must say that I completly disagree with you on this one. How is YOUR shipper, shipping more freight the carriers fault. I agree that the carrier should let you know once loaded (Adding context here, at alot of LTL pick ups a driver cannot fart around in a door if there is no space in the yard, and the shipper demands the driver to leave, it happens, alot!). How can you sell a shipment based on an approx size to an LTL carrier, specifically in this example because if you sell the same carrier two 25 foot orders and 1 grows to 32 feet, then unless that carrier has a 57 foot trailer then you are in trouble too! Space on a carriers trailer is THIER space, not YOUR space, and the carrier determins what the space is worth on YOUR customers extra freight they tried to sneak on (again, context: Alot of shippers are not accurate with their measurments knowingly latly and try to get the truck in just for the sake of getting a truck in and see what they can ship depending on supply and demand of trucks, again, yes, it happens). This comes down to the relatinoship you have with the carrier again, is it someone you work with a lot where something can be worked out easily, or a 1 off truck that you have never worked with before will play into this situation as well. Based on how Hockey Lover is explaining that the rate is determined by them as a broker and not the person who owns, maintains and manages the truck and trailer definitly concerns me. Carriers and broker can be best of freinds or worst of enemies in this business, which is usualy determented by mutual respect, and when a broker tells a carrier what the space is worth or if it limits the amount of revenue an LTL carrier can put on the truck due to less space available then you will definitly continue to run into the same issue over and over again... and if you are selling freight to carrier based on an "approx. footage" as you say, then the rate per foot should have already been discusssed, should it not?
 
More Freight....

Nawk said:
Emails, texts, Faxes, satellites...

Doesn't anybody pick up the phone and talk anymore? :confused:
Click to expand...

There will always be many "opinions" on how this should have been managed....the end of the day "NAWK" has it right...."communication". And that should have transpired before the driver left....however, not all drivers I dont believe carry a measuring tape. Here is an example: driver shows up at our dock, we clearly dispatched 13 non stackable standard size pallets. Driver shows up with 5 skid spots available on the trailer...he was adamant the 13 skids would fit....we said NO it wont.....I dont even have to tell you the ending to that story.....
 
This happened to me last week on Flatbed LTL. 30000 lb grew to 38000, which made the 12000 lb other shipment I had a no-go.
It was my first shipment with the broker. They had the serial number right, but had the equipment type and weight wrong.
As soon as my driver found out, I gave them the choice, either load it for a new rate, or I drive away without it.
They gave me the new rate that I asked for (which sucked but thats because I was driving and my calculator outwitted me), I begged forgiveness from the other shipper, and off we went.
In my case, the problem wasn't the load broker, but the seller in another province who doesnt know a bull dozer from a hang glider.
Things might have been different if this shipment was in L.A. or El Paso, because they've got you there. This was Toronto so I was OK.
As a carrier, we just have to be up front and on top of things. If the driver doesn't tell you things don't match up until he is 50 miles down the road, then it IS your fault. You are responsible for your frontline guys.

This thread is full of negativity and finger pointing. No wonder things never get settled. Talk to each other with respect like the business people you are, and let them know what you need. If they don't do it, forklifts take freight OFF too.

And yes, I've done it. Screwed around all day at a shipper, then things went south. I politely indicated we weren't hauling it and told them to take it off. Yes it cost me money that trip, but it probably made me money in the bigger picture. All future shipments were as advertised.

Biggest thing, communicate at the right time, and don't let someone push you where you shouldn't go. And its so much easier if you deal with the problem (freight size changing) and not worrying about blaming someone. :)
 
Gs trucks & Dave in London

To Gs , I fully agree with your opinion. You are spot on.

Dave I do partially agree with you.

We run large LTL here and all our trucks have experienced drivers that have measuring tapes.
Our drivers know that we maximize the freight on each trailer. If anything changes we are advised and advise the customer, otherwise there can be serious repercussions to our regular clientele, which may lead to a lack of trust if we cancel often due to running out of space.

I have yet to encountered a situation where a shipper has taken more space and not offered to pay for it.

In this case it is possible that the carrier had lots of room left and was happy to get more freight. It does not follow that he should do this for free.
I am sure the shipper charged his client for the goods and did not give any away for free. Why then is the carrier expected to give his space for free?

Should the driver be responsible for the dock-man's work or should the responsibility of his actions fall on his employer? If his employer said to load 25 feet and he put on 32 because that is how he was told to load it, than pay up!!
In the case that the dock man is incompetent, than again pay up and hire competent people that will not make that mistake.
 
Honestly, the driver needs to know how much freight he is picking up and should contact dispatch as soon as they are aware of any changes.

If the load that he is picking up differs from the confirmation in any way, then it is the responsibility of the dispatcher to contact the broker \ customer and work out a new rate.
If the driver leaves the dock, without confirming that he has the correct load on board, then the carrier is at fault for accepting the new load, without confirming this with the customer.

A driver doesn`t need a tape measure to know how much extra freight he has. If it`s a matter of a few inches, it`s really not worth the hassle.

This happens on a regular basis, in our business and, if a carrier wants to get paid for the extra freight, then they better work it out way before the load gets to the delivery.

Most clients will pay for the extra freight and will also request a reduction if the load is smaller than expected.

If you are sitting at the dock, then you hold all the cards. If you choose to leave, then you are rolling the dice.
 
Sevana Ex

I really cannot understand why in this industry , everyone always wants to blame the driver.

The problem here originates with the shipper, their employee took more space than originally contracted with the carrier.
The dock-man either put on what he was supposed to, or more!
If it is more, dock man must then report the discrepancy to his superior, they then should communicate with the carrier and send them a revision.

The pick up driver is not the operating officer of these companies and is in no way responsible for their activities. Simple!!

The driver is not a middle man in this scenario.

It would be courteous for the driver to advise , but not solely his responsibility.

Dose anyone think the COMMON CARRIERS will leave freight behind because the description has changed? They will pick up and adjust the billing.
I bet you they will re weigh freight that looks light on the bill of lading and re assess with the corrected weight.

They are certainly not going to haul the extra space for free!!
 
alx said:
The problem here originates with the shipper, their employee took more space than originally contracted with the carrier.
The dock-man either put on what he was supposed to, or more!
If it is more, dock man must then report the discrepancy to his superior, they then should communicate with the carrier and send them a revision.
Click to expand...

Does the 'dock man' really know what the supervisor booked with the broker (or carrier direct).... Or does he just see a load and put it on the truck?

It depends on the shipper I suppose.

All the more reason for everyone (not just the driver, but everyone) to communicate, communicate, communicate.

Survivor tonight!! Just a reminder.

Keep well,

Mike
 
All the people that want to put all the responsibility on the driver have obviously never dealt with drivers - ever. We have 52 drivers and if they make 3 mistakes each over the whole year (which isn't much) that would mean you would have 13 mistakes a month for the whole fleet. You have to realize these guys are the ones trying to find the truck route to the customer, the may have just been DOT'd, they may have just gotten a call from a family member screaming at them that they are never home etc etc. All the problems everyone else have but they have nothing but time to think about them when driving. So when he makes his one mistake in 4 months and misses that a shipper loaded 7 extra feet on his trailer it is all his fault? Let's get back to reality here and use some common sense and work it out.
 
Front line

alx said:
I really cannot understand why in this industry , everyone always wants to blame the driver.

The problem here originates with the shipper, their employee took more space than originally contracted with the carrier.
The dock-man either put on what he was supposed to, or more!
If it is more, dock man must then report the discrepancy to his superior, they then should communicate with the carrier and send them a revision.

The pick up driver is not the operating officer of these companies and is in no way responsible for their activities. Simple!!

The driver is not a middle man in this scenario.

It would be courteous for the driver to advise , but not solely his responsibility.

Dose anyone think the COMMON CARRIERS will leave freight behind because the description has changed? They will pick up and adjust the billing.
I bet you they will re weigh freight that looks light on the bill of lading and re assess with the corrected weight.

They are certainly not going to haul the extra space for free!!
Click to expand...

Hi Alx,

I understand what you are saying, however the driver is the first person, (carrier/broker/customer doesn't matter) who sees the freight. It is his/her job to make sure they pick up the correct shipment, get all the paperwork, make sure it is loaded securely...etc. If ANYTHING has changed from what his dispatch has given him/her it's in their job description to call and verify what is actually going on the truck. This brings any issues to light immediately and then can be fixed before any issues arise. Leaving it to someone else to "figure out" is just opening up Pandora's Box. IMHO. Do it right the first time and no fingers can be pointed!
 
I am going to put my two-cents on that one...

As a lot have said, miscommunication came in somewhere.

Let's not forget, there is far more people involved on that matter.

What if the shipper did not give the right info to the customer,
What if the customer did not say right infos to the load broker,
What if the load broker did not give the right infos to carrier,
What if dispatch did not give the right infos to the driver,

There is a lot of what ifs...

Carrier should not hold the load hostage, of course, but load broker should make a financial agreement with the carrier (even if it is just to promise a new load with more money in it... Ok some may say I am a bit naive but what if...)

Where it all comes down, transport is a business where we have to make good relationship to survive. Sometimes we lose a bit but sometimes we gain a bit.

We have to work to keep our head up.
 
klodashow said:
I am going to put my two-cents on that one...

As a lot have said, miscommunication came in somewhere.

Let's not forget, there is far more people involved on that matter.

What if the shipper did not give the right info to the customer,
What if the customer did not say right infos to the load broker,
What if the load broker did not give the right infos to carrier,
What if dispatch did not give the right infos to the driver,

There is a lot of what ifs...

Carrier should not hold the load hostage, of course, but load broker should make a financial agreement with the carrier (even if it is just to promise a new load with more money in it... Ok some may say I am a bit naive but what if...)

Where it all comes down, transport is a business where we have to make good relationship to survive. Sometimes we lose a bit but sometimes we gain a bit.

We have to work to keep our head up.
Click to expand...

well said!

you win some, you lose some, as long as you can build a long term relationship, move some freight, and make money doing so!
 
Pack rat

You a very wrong here.

The first person to see the freight is the dock man at the shipper.

What irks me here is how that driver becomes responsible for everyone's mistake.

Of course communication is key, and working with the broker to solve the problem. But being told you will not get paid for what you hauled is not acceptable.

Just last week we took 16 feet out of Augusta Ga. that turned out to be a full truckload.
We managed to get the freight all down one side of our Duraplate van . Thus we could still load some freight down the other side. Although it was very tight. The ltl was lucrative so the freight broker offered us another $100.00. we refused the extra and kept the original rate and have a client for life.

As carriers we have a multitude of other issues to deal with , and our drivers as well.

As I stated before shipments do not occur in a vacuum. Lots of people are involved and the driver cannot be held accountable for their activities.

If so I should be charging $600.00 for a flat tire this morning, because my driver had to run over some used skids in order to get turned around in a customers tight yard. Our driver really had little choice seeing it was a construction site, but he made the decision and I stand by him and suffer the loss
Should I be charging my client, he sent us there. Just as the shipper is for his dock man!
Of course not, my driver took the chance.
We are responsible for our drivers actions.
 
Hi Again Alx! again..I understand what you are saying but I am NOT saying that the driver is responsible for everyone else's mistakes. I am just saying that they ARE responsible for what is loaded on their truck. If something differs from what they were supposed to get they should inform dispatch while they are at the shipper's dock. I believe that it is much easier to fix the problem then than to try afterwards. My 2 cents is all :)
 
PackRat said:
Hi Again Alx! again..I understand what you are saying but I am NOT saying that the driver is responsible for everyone else's mistakes. I am just saying that they ARE responsible for what is loaded on their truck. If something differs from what they were supposed to get they should inform dispatch while they are at the shipper's dock. I believe that it is much easier to fix the problem then than to try afterwards. My 2 cents is all :)
Click to expand...

yes, exactly.

If a driver says a load is unfit to run on the road, but then lets himself get convinced by the shipper and runs with it, he then becomes fully liable if it tips over, etc

he should advise the shipper, then call his dispatch, who they should then call their client (broker/shipper) and have something done there before ever moving.

you leave with it, you accept it. (extra footage can be negotiated but negligence can't)
 
I think what some people are missing here is that the driver and the dispatcher are on the same TEAM.

If my driver fails, then I fail and, ultimately, the company fails.

I have seen, and been in, almost every situation out there.
You wouldn`t believe how many times a US shipper has tried to put freight on our truck because "it is going to Canada too".

I also think that just about everyone here can say that they have had their freight picked up by someone else. In that situation, the shipper is mostly at fault, but the driver and the dispatcher should have caught that.

When my driver is loaded, he calls to confirm that he has the freight on board, has a BOL that matches the freight and reports on how much room he has left. If something doesn`t add up then I need to know why?

If something changes, then I need to notify the customer immediately. The driver doesn't have the right to decide wether it's okay to pick up more or less freight without talking to me first.

Occasionally, we do run into situations where I cannot contact the customer and we have to "roll the dice" because we have other committments.

I cannot say that we are always happy with the new rate but I don't think we have ever been stiffed.
 
This topic always seems to come back to the same answer....communication. Too much freight, too little freight, should be tarped, doesn't have to be tarped, can be stacked, can't be stacked. If the shipper says or offers anything different than the information the driver has, he must call his dispatch for clarification, preferably before he leaves the shipper's dock.
 
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