Jobs, Jobs, Jobs, Everywhere Jobs!!

[MikeJr]

So, here's some facts that I'm sure we can all agree on, I would think:

It's fair to say that just about everyone is hiring (not just in transport).
It's fair to say that there is some truth to the 'quiet quitting' thing affecting productivity although it's not shutting anyone down.
It fair to say that there are on average more people in the younger generation(s) that are less zealous about putting in a full, 8 hour working day, not on theIr phones, etc. actually working all day.
It's fair to say that baby boomers are starting to retire leaving gaps in staffing.
It's fair to say that during Covid some people looked to find either permanent work from home or turned their side hustle into a full time profitable business.

For fun: who believes the employee 'shortage' will improve over time and how/why will it improve? Who believes it will become worse over time and why?

Thought it would be a fun thread, if no one wants to dicsuss, I'll just remove it.

Keep well and happy hiring!
Mike

 

[artmax]

There are about a million ways to approach this topic.

POV of the younger generation

Waiters at Canoe (restaurant downtown) make 85k a year doing 6h shifts (albeit mostly from tips)
Bartenders downtown make 75k on average pouring beer.

The average transportation wage starts at 45-55k. We are expected to?? work after hours & weekends? make inside sales calls during downtime between dispatching trucks/owner operators?

We only really have 4000 weeks here. Do you want to spend most of them in a cubicle?

American consultant/writer Toffler wrote that whenever the second wave met the first wave it resulted in the absolute annihilation of the latter. This applies to both third waves meeting second waves and to the newly emerging fourth waves meeting third waves.

 

[Freight Broker]

The current "shortage" is largely a result of two factors.. a growing economy and a shrinking workforce due to the baby boomer exodus. We all knew it was going, and covid perhaps contributed by moving the time line ahead by a year or three. I don't believe the current crop of young people are lazier or harder working than we were.. they're just younger than most of us here.

It will likely take a generation for the pendulum to swing the other way again, if it ever does. I'm a little envious of young people today.. they have their pick of jobs.. and employers in just about every field are short staffed. And I remember what a hard time I had back in the late 70s to get established in a career. Almost every job, even the dangerous crappy ones, had ten applicants for each position available. I wanted to get on with the railroad.. I was told my chances were zero as I had no family employed with CP or CN. Now I get emails from both companies to alert me of the numerous openings they have across the country.. but that ship has sailed.. I'm 60 years old.. too late. Oh well.. I had and still have a great career in trucking and freight... I really can't complain; and I'm happy that my kids have a bright future ahead of them..

 

[BPOVFB]

I've heard this industry used to have camaraderie and used to be "fun"? That's what's missing - I applaud programs like OTA's Next Generation who are trying to bring upnger folks together - but the days of cowboys and Indigenous peoples of North America (pc) are over and it's very short of the characters that built this industry (which is a shame). Now it's just even more subsects of cultural divide and a race to the bottom - not much pride on the roads or professionalism from ALOT of outfits these days.

@artmax - hit the nail on the head, in all due honesty for the responsibility one has - 45-55k doesn't entice the next generation all that much for what's "required". A special chuckle to those who think salary = 24/7 too.

If I wasn't born into it, not sure I would have chose it - but I'm glad it worked out that way - just hope I get out before it turns into what I fear it will.

 

[Upper Ech]

an article

There are about a million ways to approach this topic.

POV of the younger generation

Waiters at Canoe (restaurant downtown) make 85k a year doing 6h shifts (albeit mostly from tips)
Bartenders downtown make 75k on average pouring beer.

The average transportation wage starts at 45-55k. We are expected to?? work after hours & weekends? make inside sales calls during downtime between dispatching trucks/owner operators?

We only really have 4000 weeks here. Do you want to spend most of them in a cubicle?

American consultant/writer Toffler wrote that whenever the second wave met the first wave it resulted in the absolute annihilation of the latter. This applies to both third waves meeting second waves and to the newly emerging fourth waves meeting third waves.

i wouldn't really compare a waiter at Canoe. that's a high end restaurant. the average Gen Z will not be able to attain that job. also i highly doubt a bar down town will hire a Gen Z. they'd want someone with experience first which Gen Z lacks substantially. the average Gen Z could definitely get into the transportation industry as once they got their right license class they can start driving no problem. .

 

[loaders]

There just aren’t enough people to satisfy the job market, especially the lower paying segments of the market. Wait, bar or buss staff in the hospitality industry. Personal support workers to care for the ever expanding aging sector of society, many of whom have the means and the desire to age gracefully, with assistance, in their own homes. Moving up the pay scale, hospital staff, doctors, skilled tradespeople (have you tried to get an appliance repair person, plumber, electrician?). I really have to shake my head on this one…..where did everyone go since the pre-COVID days? Alien abductions, retirement to sunny beaches somewhere? We need more people, plain and simple. Home grown or imported, the need is real and as we all can see daily….immediate!

 

[Upper Ech]

There just aren’t enough people to satisfy the job market, especially the lower paying segments of the market. Wait, bar or buss staff in the hospitality industry. Personal support workers to care for the ever expanding aging sector of society, many of whom have the means and the desire to age gracefully, with assistance, in their own homes. Moving up the pay scale, hospital staff, doctors, skilled tradespeople (have you tried to get an appliance repair person, plumber, electrician?). I really have to shake my head on this one…..where did everyone go since the pre-COVID days? Alien abductions, retirement to sunny beaches somewhere? We need more people, plain and simple. Home grown or imported, the need is real and as we all can see daily….immediate!

there definitely is people! the problem is the people don't want to work! COVID taught Gen Z they can get paid for staying at home.

 

[artmax]

To a degree, you are in the right @Charger17

No-one wants to work for 1/3rd of their life to be able to afford an alleyway apartment looking into a brick wall. Day in and day out toiling away paying out a mortgage. (mort-gauge).

Go to Levels and see comparable pay structures. Is work worth more south of the border? Or are we in the wrong industry; Government transparency such as Sunshine Ontario sheds light on the issue.

We have the highest levels of upward mobility (next to the USA) and if one applies oneself to the grindstone one will undoubtedly move up, but there are limits to that as well. I feel like these are the limits that scare off the younger generation from applying themselves in the workforce.

 

[loaders]

Governments at all levels and of all stripes rolled out a number of assistance and wage supplement programs for both employees and employers at the height of the pandemic. I suppose it could be argued that some people saw these handouts as a way to ”milk the system” for their personal benefit. However, these programs are now complete and finished. As others have said, people whose jobs were severely impacted by COVID shut downs and restrictions, may have simply moved into different lines of work. A successful restaurant owner explained it to me that the experienced “veterans “ of his industry when faced with being on reduced hours or temporary lay offs, reinvented themselves, or started their own business and left their employers. A theme that has survived in our society since the dawn of mankind is “ young people are lazy and more concerned about having fun than a job”.

 

[Upper Ech]

To a degree, you are in the right @Charger17

No-one wants to work for 1/3rd of their life to be able to afford an alleyway apartment looking into a brick wall. Day in and day out toiling away paying out a mortgage. (mort-gauge).

Go to Levels and see comparable pay structures. Is work worth more south of the border? Or are we in the wrong industry; Government transparency such as Sunshine Ontario sheds light on the issue.

We have the highest levels of upward mobility (next to the USA) and if one applies oneself to the grindstone one will undoubtedly move up, but there are limits to that as well. I feel like these are the limits that scare off the younger generation from applying themselves in the workforce.

i agree we have the opportunity. in my opinion opportunity is definitely more available in the states but i don't belive Gen Z thinks that far. what limits do you mean?

 

[MLCAR]

The excess of Job listings and current openings in a recessionary market to me is an indicator that businesses are sifting through talent, rather than looking for growth. Goldman sachs just announced it was cutting hundreds of "white collar" Jobs, same with ford which is in the thousands. Its not a matter of shortage in those industries or sectors but rather tightening of the belt and attracting top tier talent. Sticking to trucking and our industry as a whole we face a different issue: a lack of Skilled work force. Drivers have been a shortage for a better part of the last decade and the prospect of working 11- 12 hour days is not that appealing to the younger generation. Couple that with the rise of uncertainty with the basics of being paid, benefits, job security and working for a company that may go belly up is understandably daunting.

And the transportation culture in general needs a shift in perspective. Working from home or remote shouldn't be dismissed but rather embraced. We as an industry have to adapt and embrace technology and leverage it to reduce our operating margins, the pandemic was a great test bed for this. Simply put think about the cost savings in excess office space needed to be leased to house your work force, or the additional insurances for having workers on-site at your facility, the scheduling issues (had more success with staff willing to work overnight and weekend shifts when they can work from home rather than come into the office). Needless to say meeting in person once a week or once a month would be beneficial for team morale. And these are just to name a few reasons I'm sure there are many more, but the benefits to out weight the cons in my books.

 

[MLCAR]

A theme that has survived in our society since the dawn of mankind is “ young people are lazy and more concerned about having fun than a job”.

LOL I dont really think that is the case with this new GEN. There are kids making millions off youtube videos and Instagram posts. Kids playing video games for 13 hours a day and streaming their content have ad deals and sponsorships with pepsi and mountain dew. I know a few guys that have started a grocery delivery service from scratch and are making 100K in profits, and they just started last year. People are selling products off Amazon from the comfort of their homes with drop shipping. The gig/side hustle economy is stronger than ever and it is showing this Gen that there is more ways than one to make a buck, Most times that doesn't involve sitting at a desk Infront of a screen. Its really up to the company now to make the "workplace" appealing, and if that means its a office kitchen filled with cereal and snacks or a bring your pet to work, or anything you could imagine, then that's what it will take. A job can be challenging, stressful, hard but also FUN!

 

[BPOVFB]

if our CPP payments, which we will never collect will help wipe your ass in a Mike Harris LTC - you can at least us have a bit of fun at work, no? The reality is - you will likely be the last generation to see the fruits of your inherited wealth from the best socio-economic time this country has had in 200 years. If we're going to become cogs in an upside down population triangle at least let us have some fun and if you're getting to that big ol age and really want to help the next gen - I'd suggest reading up on the MAID program - do it for the kids!

 

[PT INC]

most poeple left ontario, gone in to different parts of Canada since covid due to work from home and home affordability , its not cheap to live in ontario anymore even if you make 100k.

covid thought people to be self efficient

 

[artmax]

i agree we have the opportunity. in my opinion opportunity is definitely more available in the states but i don't belive Gen Z thinks that far. what limits do you mean?

There's a story I heard about a young guy that did outside sales for a local pallet rental company. By chance or skill, he miraculously did 7 digits in sales in the first year. The company rewarded him with a 10 thousand dollar bonus; he opted to take that money and everything he saved to open up his own pallet company. The dilettante employers tried to enforce everything from a non-compete to intellectual property rights to ensure that he wouldn't make it on his own; luckily for everyone saner minds prevailed and he managed to continue forging his path.

Or what about the 2008 financial crisis that bankrupted multiple companies in the GTA creating the plethora of asset-based companies dominant today?

What about off-shot brokerages or trucking companies nowadays?

Everyone had a start somewhere. Why do people leave companies to make their own?

 

[MikeJr]

I'll correct you there, it's not cheap to live in 'SOUTHERN' Ontario... Mind you I'm in one of the lesser desireable city's in Ontario and my place was still over $800k... It may be less desireable to people that live elsewhere, but after being here for nearly 2 years, I wish I had come sooner.

The world's reaction to Covid caused a whole wack of people my wife and I included to re-evaluate our lives for sure, and we're so much happier and healthier for it.

Keep well,
Mike

 

[artmax]

most poeple left ontario, gone in to different parts of Canada since covid due to work from home and home affordability , its not cheap to live in ontario anymore even if you make 100k.

A house in Toronto = Mediterranean 10-unit waterfront resort with sunset views and infinity pools.
1kg figs in Turkey = 2CAD
1kg grapes in Greece = 3CAD
1L fresh orange juice Scotland = 3.25CAD
1 acre Costa Rica 10 mins from gulf = 30K

There is a 0 % chance I'm looking to retire in Canada.

 

[MikeJr]

I'll probably retire here (Canada). I'll want to stay close to Matthew (who is 5 now), also I've been paying taxes for my healthcare, I'll want to take advantage of that when I'm older and need it. Assuming there is still a healthcare system.

Oh, there's no way in hell I'll be here Jan-March though. Arizona, Texas or Mexico all the way. 15 more years of productivity in me though.

Keep well,
Mike

 

[tasuinam]

A house in Toronto = Mediterranean 10-unit waterfront resort with sunset views and infinity pools.
1kg figs in Turkey = 2CAD
1kg grapes in Greece = 3CAD
1L fresh orange juice Scotland = 3.25CAD
1 acre Costa Rica 10 mins from gulf = 30K

There is a 0 % chance I'm looking to retire in Canada.

View attachment 1049

plus you get dometics help for next to nothing - beautiful weather

 

[Michael Ludwig]

Labour Shortage & COVID:
I think, over 2 years of lock downs, many families realized that both parents really did not need to work. i.e. mom's Tim Hortons gig was really only paying for the babysitting. I suspect many figured if they tightened their collective belts a bit, stopped longing for the things they would never own, and quit playing "keep up with the Joneses" they could get along just fine, and be much happier doing it.

Today's Youth:
In fairness to their work habits, as it is true they do not work a traditional "8 hour day", they do work differently than the rest of us "old school" workers. I find that [most of] my young people work just as hard as I do except they do it in short bursts over 24 hours whereas I dive in and do it all at once in 8 or 10 hours. For the most part, I have no problem letting my young people do their jobs as they see fit ... as long as the whole job gets done . I does drive me nuts that they don't work like I do, but I'm learning to live with it as it's really not a bad idea.

Retirement:
I'm 61 this year. I expect I'll work until 70 (assuming I live that long). Not because I have to, but because, as stupid as it seems, I really like my work. Will I finish my career here? I doubt it. I'd like to finish up my career by finding and completing one last challenge. I have been told people like me are wanted in New Zealand, although Costa Rica sounds nice too.

Final Moments:
I hope to go out in a blaze of glory ... shot in the back by a jealous husband !!!!!!