Incomplete/incorrect paperwork

loaders

loaders

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Feb 26, 2008
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I am not sure, but I think this is becoming a real pet peeve for me. Again today we received at least two invoices from carriers that included a signed copy of the commercial invoice as a POD. What is so complicated about getting a proper B/L completed and signed at both pick up and delivery? If a driver is not issued with a B/L from the shipper, ask for one! If there is any question, call someone! Some of the blame for this lack of professionalism lies with the factoring companies who submit their invoice with pretty much any kind of paperwork attached. Granted, I haven’t seen a cigarette pack with a scribbled signature presented as proof of delivery, but I attribute that to the reduction in the number of smokers! Please, if you want to get paid promptly, submit a properly completed B/L! Sorry, this is my Thursday rant.
 
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I hear you - in my drivers' defence - sometimes eventhough the driver points out where to sign the receiver will sign where they please ... most times driver is asked for ALL teh paperwork and gets it back after offloading ...he is not allowed on the dock/office.

We have asked drivers not to provide invoices ... that seemed to solve a lot of issues
 
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Maybe I am dating myself, but I seem to remember a time when drivers carried a pad of blank Bills of Lading in their cab. If there was any confusion about who was providing a B/L, the driver could always grab one. It is our experience that customs invoices should not be shown or given to anyone other than Customs officials, it avoids problems.
 
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As a carrier we have seen this more and more often. The driver will be in some cage waiting for his trailer to be unloaded only to have a piece of paper pushed through a hole in the fence and the guy walks away. After the driver takes a quick glance, he can holler and yell at the guy, but the guy ignores everything or has his earbuds in, and he keeps going.

The driver calls me, we call the customer but most brokers don't want to deal with it and say take it up with accounting. We have seen scribbles that are illegible, consignees signing on the carriers spot, only initials noted - we have seen everything.

Brokers should ask their customers to identify if the BFO can have a chat with the receiver if it is an ongoing issue. 99.9 percent of the time there is not even a need to have a POD/BL. We have some customers who do not want them with the inovice.
 
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Jim L, you summed that up exactly the way I would have. Drivers often are treated like cattle being rounded up in these bigger places, and in smaller ones, you are lucky to have anyone acknowledge you at all. I have even seen paperwork just left inside the trailer and the driver doesn't get to speak to anyone at all.
 
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Listen, don’t get me wrong, I understand and sympathize with the difficulties drivers sometimes face getting the correct documentation, especially at large DCs and warehouses. But isn’t there someone in the carriers accounting department that at least looks at the paperwork they are sending out? In many cases when we refuse payment because of incomplete paperwork, somehow, miraculously the correct documents are found! I have no problem going to bat for a carrier who did everything possible to get a proper Bill of Lading from one of my customers suppliers. Imagine the can of worms that would open up if there was a major freight claim and the only document supposedly verifying delivery was a signed commercial invoice? On the positive side, there would be no argument about the correct value of the damaged goods!
 
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I also agree with you Loaders. A driver should always have a proper bill of lading and should be trained to get that. Sorry if I came off as undervaluing your comment. I didn't mean that. Jim L's comment struck a nerve with me and brings back all the memories of the times a driver is doing there best and is completely ignored. They definitely should call dispatch and get someone moving to get the bill before they leave.
 
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Ah the good old days!! Go to a shipper and say I am picking up 5 skids for ABC Company in Montreal. They load 5 skids and say we have no paperwork and don't know the weight. Call dispatch they call the Broker ( I am not blaming Brokers here as they were not told of this either) and the broker gets back about half hour to an hour later and still no answer. Driver fills out a BOL with 5 skids and shipper refuses to sign! Now we have wasted 1-2 hrs trying to pick up these skids and still do not have proper paperwork. Waiting time will be disputed. This doesn't happen very often thank God! Funny part on carrying blank BOL's is I had a company call me on a load filled out on our BOL from a driver who quit a year earlier and kept our blank BOL's. Luckily the company who called was smart and knew we have never done a load for them before. The worst is the fustration of the driver getting the run around when he only wants to get out of there.
 
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Again, for fear of dating myself even further, but doesn’t the MOT in Ontario and the DOT in the US ask to see the Bills of Lading when they pull a truck in for an inspection? I can recall from personal experience that they used to. Am I correct to assume they no longer ask for that documentation or do they just concentrate on vehicle safety and driver logs? It just strikes me as odd that there are some companies who take such a cavalier attitude towards proper paperwork. As Jim L correctly stated, there are many customers who don’t ask for a B/L to be included with their invoice. However we all have to keep a copy on file if a customer required one at a later date.
 
loaders said:
Again, for fear of dating myself even further, but doesn’t the MOT in Ontario and the DOT in the US ask to see the Bills of Lading when they pull a truck in for an inspection? I can recall from personal experience that they used to. Am I correct to assume they no longer ask for that documentation or do they just concentrate on vehicle safety and driver logs? It just strikes me as odd that there are some companies who take such a cavalier attitude towards proper paperwork. As Jim L correctly stated, there are many customers who don’t ask for a B/L to be included with their invoice. However we all have to keep a copy on file if a customer required one at a later date.
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Can really only speak for my experiences in Ontario and Quebec. Sometimes they ask for them, sometimes they just ask what's in the trailer.. sometimes they don't ask at all..
 
Fun with Michael afternoon ... LOL
Technically speaking, without a bill of lading, also known as the contract of carriage, the carrier has no responsibility to the freight, and the shipper has no responsibility to the carrier.
This begs two obvious questions;
1) who, in their right mind, would haul freight without a bill of lading?
2) who, in their right mind, would ship freight without a bill of lading?
Technically speaking, the shipper does not need a signed (by the consignee) copy of the bill of lading to process carrier payment (pay the invoice) as the shipper already has a copy of the executed contract of carriage in the form of the bill of lading signed by the shipper's representative (dock worker) and the carrier's representative (driver). Any further action on the freight beyond this point goes to the claims side of the business, and an unpaid contract is reason enough to not pay out the claim, regardless of carrier culpability.
Technically speaking, a load broker does not have a right to the bill of lading as they are typically not party to the contract. The exception would be if the bill of lading was made out in the load broker's name and the actual carrier was authorized to sign on behalf to the load broker. However, this means that in the event of a claim the load broker's insurance is first to come into play, and the carrier's insurance will be subrogated. Additionally, if the contract was between the shipper and the actual carrier, and the load broker refuses to pay the carrier without a copy of the bill of lading, the carrier can legitimately invoice the shipper for the transportation for the amount proffered by the load broker, for which the shipper would be liable, and the load broker would be left to collect their cut from the shipper separately.
Technically speaking, MTO does not require the carrier to produce a bill of lading, except if the commodities being carried are Haz Mat/DG. Both Canada Customs and U.S. Customs do not require a bill of lading unless that is where the carrier's representative has applied the PARS or PAPS sticker, or there is relevant information on the bill of lading that is not indicated on the commercial invoice.
 
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Technically speaking….the way it works at my house, in order to get paid, a carrier provides a signed Bill of Lading as proof of the delivery along with his invoice for his services. Customs Invoices, Packing Slips, Order Sheets, my God, even a copy of our Load Confirmation does not constitute a completed delivery. If the shipper issued a Bill of Lading, send me a copy. If the driver completed his own Bill of Lading signed by the shipper and the receiver, send me a copy. These simple and easy to understand instructions are spelled out on our load confirmation. If providing a Bill of Lading is too cumbersome a task, please do not accept our freight.
 
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Totally get your point. Understand though that successful delivery of the freight is not part of the contract. Essentially you are hiring the carrier to show up and load the freight. Everything that happens after that point is a part of the claims process which is wholly separate from the transportation contract, yet dependent upon its execution.
I seem to remember reading somewhere that, as odd as this scenario is, it has its roots in the old days of Conestoga wagons and teams of horses. Basically the carrier (teamsters back then) was being paid to take the chance of getting the freight through. Past the highwaymen, past the warring tribes, through the floods, and the droughts, and the deserts, and over the mountains, and so on.
Somehow we managed to keep a 200 or 300 year old practice alive right up to today, and it looks like it will continue well into the future.
I'm not opining whether it is right or wrong. For better or for worse, I am just saying that's the way it is.
 
Michael Ludwig said:
Totally get your point. Understand though that successful delivery of the freight is not part of the contract. Essentially you are hiring the carrier to show up and load the freight. Everything that happens after that point is a part of the claims process which is wholly separate from the transportation contract, yet dependent upon its execution.
I seem to remember reading somewhere that, as odd as this scenario is, it has its roots in the old days of Conestoga wagons and teams of horses. Basically the carrier (teamsters back then) was being paid to take the chance of getting the freight through. Past the highwaymen, past the warring tribes, through the floods, and the droughts, and the deserts, and over the mountains, and so on.
Somehow we managed to keep a 200 or 300 year old practice alive right up to today, and it looks like it will continue well into the future.
I'm not opining whether it is right or wrong. For better or for worse, I am just saying that's the way it is.
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you are saying - all I have to do is load on time ..... and will get paid? wonder how that would play out if it ever went to court
 
tasuinam said:
you are saying - all I have to do is load on time ..... and will get paid? wonder how that would play out if it ever went to court
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What Michael is referring to is that in essence, all a carrier has to do is load the freight in any manner he so chooses, on any type of trailer, on time or not. Delivery times, the condition of the freight and everything else is a freight claim and must handled as such. Payment is an entirely different matter. Technically, it could be interpreted that charges for a freight bill are due upon demand…COD in other words. However, over the years, this interpretation has been replaced with generally accepted credit terms. Another thing to keep in mind. The investigation of a freight claim is NOT dependent upon payment of the freight bill. Payment of the freight bill is required before a claim is finally settled. One last point, and I am sure Michael would agree, any carrier that continually operated in such a manner would not last long in this industry.
 
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loaders said:
If only we had some rain. Then the grass would grow and need a cut and I would have something else to do besides continually throwing my 2 cents into almost every conversation!
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I have been watching my cat chase this ONE bunny that keeps baiting him... Animal Planet in my backyard
Thinking I will make a TikTok and upload it - I bet you I would get a million views
 
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