How to Stop Double Brokerage

is the carrier to blamed when not being paid by the Double Broker?

  • YES

    Votes: 9 29.0%

  • NO

    Votes: 22 71.0%
  • Total voters
    31
Michael Ludwig said:
Having had some time to think this through a little further, I made the conscious decision to mess with some peoples minds a bit. Here goes ...
What the vast majority of the trucking industry, whether you are a carrier or a broker, does not understand is that the Bill of Lading is King. Every essence of the transaction(s) revolve around the Bill of Lading.
Why is that you might ask; because the Bill of Lading is a CONTRACT !!!!!
Let's look at a load example, involving a load broker, that happens quite often.
I book a load through a load broker from Point A to Point B. The load broker sends me the load confirmation, and in that load confirmation is all kinds of good information. Everything from where to pick it up and deliver it to, to where, when, and how I send my invoice to the load broker, to how long I can expect to wait to get paid. There's even a spot where I have to sign it and send it back ... which I do.
I send a driver to pick up the load of 1,000 cases of porcelain widgets, which are stacked on pallets, and shrink wrapped for protection. When loading is complete, the shipper hands three (3) documents to my driver. The first is a customs invoice for crossing into the U.S. The second is a certificate of origin, also used for crossing into the U.S. The third is a single sheet of paper that has a single line at the top of the document that says "Bill of Lading" and denotes the contents of the shipment, where the shipment comes from, and where it goes to. At the shipper's request, my driver signs a copy of the "Bill of Lading" and hands it back to the shipper. We are now free to go.
At the end of the day the load delivers just fine, and the broker pays me on time for my efforts.
But, there are loopholes. Big loopholes. Here are a couple ...
1. Technically there is no contract between the load broker and myself. I don't have a countersigned copy of the load tender. There is no witness to my signature. Hell, I don't even have authority to bind the corporation. I could go directly to the shipper and invoice them for the load without fear of recourse or recrimination from the load broker.
Yes I know there are lots of clauses in numerous load broker confirmations and contracts that say "if you take loads from this customer, you owe me ... yada yada yada". Ya ... See you in court.
2. Technically there is no contract between myself and the shipper. The Bill of Lading, also known by its proper title "The Contract of Carriage" has a couple of faults that render it inadequate;
a) It is not a properly configured bill of lading. Just because it says "Bill of Lading" at the top, does not mean it qualifies as a proper bill of lading.
b) There is no countersigning shipper's signature on my copy of the bill of lading.
What does all that mean?
Well, I could steal the load. Technically I don't have it.
The shipper could decide not to pay me, or the load broker. Technically I don't have the load.
I could charge the load broker ten times what was quoted. After all, we have nothing that is legally binding.
Load broker could decide to pay me half what was quoted. After all, we have nothing that is legally binding.
So, I'm left with a few questions ...
Why is everyone so concerned about dealing with loads that are, in the scammer sense, "double brokered"? First of all, what do you owe these scammers, and why, after you have discovered they are scammers, are you trying to be upstanding, honest, law-abiding citizens? Drop the gloves and meet 'em at center ice :)
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Perhaps all those scenarios are possible and perhaps from time to time someone actually attempts them. I would think however, that the chances of making a successful business model out of them are somewhat slim. Sort of like describing the difference between going shopping and throwing a brick through the store window. In both cases you obtain what you are looking for, but in the one case there are a few more pissed off people.
 
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loaders said:
Perhaps all those scenarios are possible and perhaps from time to time someone actually attempts them. I would think however, that the chances of making a successful business model out of them are somewhat slim. Sort of like describing the difference between going shopping and throwing a brick through the store window. In both cases you obtain what you are looking for, but in the one case there are a few more pissed off people.
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They are absolutely possible, but that's not my point.
My point is that although any number of malicious compliant actions could be taken throughout the transaction, generally they are not because the vast majority of us are honest. We tend to play within the spirit of the transaction, rather than the letter of the law. It just makes everyone's life so much easier.
I have simply pointed out a couple of avenues honest folk could use to thwart the scumbaggery of this industry.
I also posed the question, to which I have not received an answer, why do upstanding, honest, law-abiding members of this industry try to play forthright in a game that is, where these scumbags are concerned, rigged?
I mean really, so what if one of these dicks threatens to take you to court?
My response ... "F@#kin' right ... Let's go !!!"
Pfft ... Like they would ever show up. "Your Honour, this guy stole a load that I stole first and I want to sue him.".
Right after that statement the guy would go up on manslaughter charges ... The Judge would die laughing!!!
 
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Rob said:
Who is it? Putting the name out is the best way to know who is doing it. That being said some brokers could care less as long as it is covered. Had that happen a couple weeks ago. Traffix load and the broker did not give a crap as long as the load was done.
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KPGS was the carrier
 
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I was thinking about this post today. I am just wondering how many brokers actually pull a regular CVOR report on Ontario based carriers? Do you even record the CVOR number? Did you know that you can purchase for a mere $5.00CDN a CVOR report to confirm a mountain of public information including safety rating, number of reported trucks/mileage, convictions, inspections, length of time in business - the whole shebang! You can also search, check for excellent carriers, find out who was cancelled or considered unsatisfactory. This should help with your decision making capabilities. You might just find that you're giving loads to a 'carrier' who doesn't exist. Giving a carrier one load a day from ON-BC doesn't work if the carrier only has one truck.

You can get them from the Ontario website. https://www.ontario.ca/page/commercial-vehicle-operators-registration-cvor
I have copied a portion of the page with the links below..


The following services are available online for free:

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If you can provide similar links for other provinces please post!
 
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Empathy is the capacity to understand or feel what another person is experiencing from within their frame of reference, that is, the capacity to place oneself in another's position

You appear to be intelligent and know that the victim of the double brokering is in a world of financial hurt after just a couple of loads gone bad - put yourself in their position - keeping a financial commitment to the drivers, fuel & equipment suppliers and then too top it off making sure you have enough bread to break at home and keep your own bills paid for your family.
 
Fattyfirst said:
Empathy is the capacity to understand or feel what another person is experiencing from within their frame of reference, that is, the capacity to place oneself in another's position

You appear to be intelligent and know that the victim of the double brokering is in a world of financial hurt after just a couple of loads gone bad - put yourself in their position - keeping a financial commitment to the drivers, fuel & equipment suppliers and then too top it off making sure you have enough bread to break at home and keep your own bills paid for your family.
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To whom are you speaking ???
(5 pages in on a thread started 4 months ago ... I don't know about you guys but I'm not re-reading all those posts every time some posts a response)
 
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frtbrkr said:
Hi Carriers

I use to have a let of empathy for carriers who didn't got paid by the "Double Brokers". At the end of the day, it's their truck, their driver, their fuel and insurance which hauled the freight, they deserved to get paid.

I recently - however - lost that empathy, i would like to ask carriers to help me get it back.

It's my understanding, that the carriers know when they P/U the freight, that it's given to them by another carrier, they know their customer isn't honest to the shipper/receiver or to the real "load broker". The temptation for money leads them to look sideways and enable the "Double Broker" to continue with their shady business model.

In most cases, the carrier which hauls the freight knows that something isn't right. Most of the times, the "Double Broker" is telling them the Driver needs to ID himself as [Name of the Double Broker company], no real broker will ever ask for it, quite the opposite, most real honest Load Brokers will notify the shipper in advance as to which Carrier was hired for P/U. In others cases, the Double Broker will be the one issuing the PARS/PAPS # to avoid getting caught. There are other ways where the hauling carrier knows or senses that something is not straight, but chooses to look away. Once they are on the receiving-end of these crooks, it's then they are crying for help from the shipper/receiver or the real honest Load Broker.

You cant have the cake and eat it too, you are either operating with principal, value and honor or you don't!

Carriers, please help me change my view on this.
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you are absolutely right, it happened to me several time initially when most of the brokers was giving me load bc of new carrier especially Canadian brokers.
last Friday I didn't find any loads from INDY. when I booked a load with a big carrier and also work as a broker, once we agreed on a rate after picking up the load they said i have to use their PARS then i asked for an authorization letter.
so this is a very common practice.
Normally I don't deal with the carrier
 
Fattyfirst said:
Empathy is the capacity to understand or feel what another person is experiencing from within their frame of reference, that is, the capacity to place oneself in another's position

You appear to be intelligent and know that the victim of the double brokering is in a world of financial hurt after just a couple of loads gone bad - put yourself in their position - keeping a financial commitment to the drivers, fuel & equipment suppliers and then too top it off making sure you have enough bread to break at home and keep your own bills paid for your family.
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I don't know what this is in reference to but no matter how much empathy one can give, it's still business. If the carrier chose to pick up a load and deliver it but have no clue if, when or how the person on the other end of the phone or email is going to pay them then that is the chance you take. Ultimately it was the carrier's choice was to take skip that person and wait.
I am very empathetic and understand the position that the carrier is in when the bill is not paid. I have learned many times myself. All one can do is change the processes and procedures to make sure it doesn't happen again.
 
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The double brokering will never stop. all we need to do is protect our selfves and make sure all parties get paid.
 
Hi,
Based on my studies with CIFFA.. the contract of sale based on carriers relays on the Incoterms given by customer/shipper. I'd say if it's an open term where multiple hands are involved without consent then it is double brokering. If parties aware of carriers then you have an open term. Where more hands are involved. Hopefully, payment will happen to the right people. If terms are not set then oops. Here we are in the game called "he said/ she said game. If you need help. I am happy to. Just send me a message.
 
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nir182 said:
Hi,
Based on my studies with CIFFA.. the contract of sale based on carriers relays on the Incoterms given by customer/shipper. I'd say if it's an open term where multiple hands are involved without consent then it is double brokering. If parties aware of carriers then you have an open term. Where more hands are involved. Hopefully, payment will happen to the right people. If terms are not set then oops. Here we are in the said she said game. If you need help. I am happy to. Just send me a message.
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Great information.. thanks for assistance
 
Lol, easier said.. customers are universal. They can use as many carriers as they want unless it's under their terms.
 
Where there is money there is sleaze.........as some noted there will always be those looking to scam others. I work for an asset based broker and work on trucks and broker loads. Fun times doing both, it can be tough. Find good trucks they cost more, clients want cheap, who's cheap. Cheap trucks who tell lies, play games and hire their little friends.
Same goes for me on the truck side, try to book with legit brokers who are commissioned and pay like garbage or better yet work with a small guy who may scam you.

best we can do is learn from ours and others experiences. Share information on here about brokers and carriers alike.
Vet as much as you can, do credit checks, and if that feeling is really bad hold the load unilt you get payment.
 
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