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I overstated it... there are lots of decent people in this business, but we sure seem to remember those who have taken advantage more than those who did us a good turn.
HAD TO LAUGH AT THIS RATE...
- Thread starter martinetav
- Start date
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1.63 is a very general number. If you do nothing but pickup and delivery in Toronto or Montreal then 1.63 is way too low. And if you're at the other extreme.. running only team from Halifax, NS to Vancouver, BC then 1.63 might be a little high. It's like the price of a haircut.. $14.00 is fine for me.. but certainly not for my wife.
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I can appreciate your enthusiasm and conviction about this topic martinetav, but I have to take exception with your comments accusing me of offering cheap rates and dealing with cheap trucking companies. On the contrary, if you re-read my comments from earlier, I think you will find that I was encouraging carriers like yourself to refuse low rates and hopefully they'll disappear. Yes, I do take all factors (all factors that I can control) into consideration when I prepare pricing, and sorry, what you pay for fuel, tires, trucks, etc., etc. are not included. I would certainly hope that when a carrier has provided me with a rate, those items (which he can control) have been factored into his price. After 25 years in this business, the discussions about rates have not ceased to be lively!
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Loaders, very sad that you don't take our costs into consideration when you are rating loads that you want to sell to us. And we do give rates and then get asked 'why so expensive'... Isn't a part of costing, knowing what it actually costs. I say you, but it should be generalized to all brokers. If you price loads without taking into consideration what it actually costs then you aren't doing a very good job, in my eyes. And I would be curious to know if you have come down on the part that you keep...
How many carriers truly know their cost per mile? I have had dispatchers over the years that think that whatever we pay the Owner Operator is our cost per mile. What about the trailer, the administrative costs, the dispatchers, the building the taxes etc etc etc.........
The only way you truly know is to take your TOTAL expense of your company for the year and divide it by TOTAL miles travelled. Then average it out over a few years to account for major one time costs such as engines or claims.
Yes, every carrier's cost per mile will be different depending on the cost of their operation and the type of freight, weights and average length of haul.
Worst mistake you can make it taking someone else's cost per mile and applying to your rates.
The only way you truly know is to take your TOTAL expense of your company for the year and divide it by TOTAL miles travelled. Then average it out over a few years to account for major one time costs such as engines or claims.
Yes, every carrier's cost per mile will be different depending on the cost of their operation and the type of freight, weights and average length of haul.
Worst mistake you can make it taking someone else's cost per mile and applying to your rates.
Shakey
Site Supporter
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Mike beet me to best post of day so this is second best and so true! You're on a roll whatiship!
The truth is it won't change anything if anyone refuses loads at cheap prices because someone else will move it at the same rate. Things will change with time when supply/demand changes.
Canadians are simply not buying as much product from the USA because of the 30%+ exchange rate so the inbounds have become scarce.
If/When the exchange rate comes back down to 20% or so things should come back to normal.
In the meantime we are all paying through the nose for outbound!!!
Canadians are simply not buying as much product from the USA because of the 30%+ exchange rate so the inbounds have become scarce.
If/When the exchange rate comes back down to 20% or so things should come back to normal.
In the meantime we are all paying through the nose for outbound!!!
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As you said Martinetav, YOUR costs are exactly that....YOURS. I don't know what they are, and I don't care what they are, because they are YOUR costs. When I ask you for a rate, as we do for any new lane we're quoting, I fully expect you as a professional, competent carrier to have factored YOUR costs into the rate you give me. If your rate for a certain lane is $1000.00, then that is the cost I'm going to work with as I prepare my quote to my customer. If you run Freightliners or Volvos, use Michelin's or Goodyear's, burn Ultra-mar or Shell, pay your drivers by the mile or the trip, I could give a rats ass. Those are your decisions and your costs, not mine. Give me your best rate and provide me with good service, that's all I want from you, and in return, I'll give you as much freight as I can and pay you within your terms. Don't tell me what your cost per mile is to operate your trucks, I don't need to know and really it's none of my business. Just the rate sir, just the rate.
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This discussion reminds of the time last year when I had a truck cancel on me at the 11th hour on a Friday for a load picking up in Camden, NJ for Kansas City, KS. I HAD to move the load as my customer would have incurred massive port charges, so I posted it again and within a few minutes I had someone. Well.. at least he had a sense of humor. He understood my position and charged me $4.50 a mile.. He made no bones about it.. he said he was taking advantage because he new very well that with only an hour left in the day my options were few. And then, maybe 10 months later, he called me on a posted load I had.. this time the tables were turned and I knew I had him.. I reminded him of the prior load and offered him 85 cents a mile for this and nothing extra for tarp. I have to give him credit though.. he took it like a man.. we each had each other over a barrel and lived to laugh about it. And we still do business on cordial terms.
Martinetav, your premise seems to based on the idea that Loaders gets to "cost" the move, then call you with a rate, and you have to take it.....I think you have skipped over the part where Loaders calls you and ASKS what do you need for move A? And then Loaders takes the rate and prepares HIS quote to the customer. If the customer accepts...Loaders get his rate....and you get yours. Last time I checked no one had the power to tell me what THEY costed out the load to be and I HAD to take it. If someone calls you with a rate you don't like, or more importantly, can move profitably, DON"T TAKE IT. This whole premise of "we are taking notes and Karma's a bitch" can't be used carte blanche. Just my opinion.
PR
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Exactly PackRat. I'm sure I've said this before in a previous thread, but only a foolish broker would try to determine what a freight rate should be without first getting a few quotes from some carriers. Rating what a certain lane should pay isn't our job. That's what carriers do because they incur all of the costs of performing the work. As a broker, the only people we talk to all day long, are carriers. We know that costs are rising in our industry, we hear it every day. As a carrier, if you feel that a certain broker isn't offering proper rates for your service, then don't deal with them.
Lets say I am planning to go to Florida and I call 3 airlines for pricing. Airline #1 and #2 are $900.00 and airline 3 is $500.00. They all fly safe planes and they all have good service levels, maybe they all even show the same movie. Airline #3 is going to get my business, and I could care less if they make money or lose money on the flight. The only difference is that Airline #3 is going to appreciate my business and not be pissed at me for making them operate at a loss.
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martinetav do you price on the round trip or only 1 way? If you only look at the 1 way you will drive yourself completely crazy and in this market you need to calm down and take a breath supply and demand too many trucks and not enough loads people will take advantage, weather the storm it will change. Been doing this for way too long and I can tell you this market is the same as 18 years ago and it will change but not for a couple of years until our dollar starts to go up. You need to get more on your outbound so if you are quoting now for the New Year start raising the rates because every carrier should be or they will not survive. Customers will complain but explain the reality to them chances are the dollar is affecting them as much as it is affecting you and if they do not want to help well you then have to make some hard decisions. You can get mad at the inbound rates (I sure do) but you cannot blame people for making a profit because that is the business you are in also keep your lists and exact revenge when you can but otherwise don't drive yourself crazy.
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So, let's just say that there is not even a illusion of team work here. Which I will remember when the next broker tells me that this is a team effort. I will finish this off, for me anyway, with a reminder... Look around, I defy any of you to find anything you own, use, need, whatever, that doesn't arrive on a truck... Load brokers count on trucks to move freight and help you earn your hard earned cash... There is a place for independents because there will always be loads that the big companies can't get moved by their drivers. I will also say that there are a number of brokers here who seem to be saying 'do as I say, not as I do'... With that, have a great day...
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EXACTLY, which is why, as carriers we should ALL be supporting each other. It's fine for us all to say that we will raise our outbound rates, but how many have actually put their money where their mouth is? We have had no choice but to raise our rates and, yes, it has hurt us somewhat but we are going to stick it out until most others follow suit. In the long run they don't have any choice if they want to survive. We are also re-examining our lanes, our costs, etc.
As @lowmiler88 said, it will take a few more years AT LEAST for things to get better. Anyone who thinks things will turn around after the first or second quarter of 2016 needs to open their eyes and accept the reality of our low dollar. It will not be at par again (or even close) for quite some time.
After reading all of the comments so far, I believe it still comes down to carriers not low-balling each other. The brokers lowering their rates would not even be an issue if every carrier would stick to their guns and refuse to take cheap loads. I'm sad to say it but, as carriers, we are our own worst enemies.
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