Double brokerage/fraud

T

truck111

New Member
Nov 14, 2024
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Toronto
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Hello,

I am reaching out to seek guidance regarding a complex freight payment issue we are currently facing. I apologize for the lengthy message, but I appreciate your time in reviewing the details.

We recently booked a load from NY to ON with a new U.S. carrier. They provided their MC, W9, and insurance, and we verified their information via phone and SAFER. Everything appeared legitimate, and communication was smooth. The carrier provided the POD on Friday morning and requested quick pay, which we processed that same afternoon.

However, today my customer, the receiver, forwarded an email from a company in ON that I had never heard of, demanding payment for the same load. They are claiming they completed the transport and are requesting $1,200 USD, despite us having booked the load for $500 USD. Their POD copies show the name of the carrier we originally contracted, and our POD clearly indicate third-party billing as well (which is us).

Upon further investigation, this ON carrier presented a rate sheet from a broker in GA and claims that both the original carrier and the GA broker were victims of identity fraud. I offered to pay them the same amount we billed our customer ($1,100 CAD), but they refused and are now threatening legal action. I also advised them to file a claim against my bond, as my customer has made it clear they will not issue any payment to them direct. I do believe they did the work (most likely) but not sure why they refuse to file on my bond?

Given these circumstances, I would greatly appreciate any insight or advice on how to proceed. Should we take further legal precautions, or are there industry best practices for handling such disputes?

Thank you in advance for your guidance. I look forward to your responses.
 
Only thing I can say, after 25 years of experience in brokerage is, Good luck.
That GA broker is probably MIA currently I'm guessing?
Who's the original carrier / Broker used so we can block it?
 
My gut feeling is telling me the ON carrier is in on the scam.

I have a few questions -

Is the carrier in ON of significant size? or is this a small, one man show who might be in on the scam? This matters a lot, a carrier who is of significant size would take the $1100 and move on.

Your customer is likely to get dragged into the legal suit, if they truly choose to do that. Make sure your customer is aware of that.

Personally, we would try to settle in the middle and make it go away. The amounts of money are small enough that its not worth the fight. Regardless of right and wrong in this situation.
 
If your attempts to reach a fair and equitable settlement are rebuffed, then do nothing, and let the person demanding the funds take legal action. A conversation with an experienced paralegal, such as ScamChaser who is on this site, would be a good first step to prepare yourself for what might….or might not happen. As other have said, be sure your customer is aware of what is happening and ensure they understand that you will be responsible if any additional payments are required. I would not recommend that they try and file against your US Surety Bond. If they were successful, it could hinder your ability to maintain it.
 
truck111 said:
Hello,


We recently booked a load from NY to ON with a new U.S. carrier.
Click to expand...
Above is where you got screwed. Small US carriers do not come to Canada I have said it hear a hundred times but brokers in their greed 500 US and your billing 1150 get all googley eyed when they see the big margin. Sorry you are fucked pay buddy that did the work and good luck finding your great new carrier that checked out from Georgia he is probably now from Texas looking for another broker with stars in their eyes at the great rates they haul for.
 
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misto27 said:
Only thing I can say, after 25 years of experience in brokerage is, Good luck.
That GA broker is probably MIA currently I'm guessing?
Who's the original carrier / Broker used so we can block it?
Click to expand...
The Broker is CBT from GA and they are advising someone hacked their DAT account.
 
Fr8Guru said:
My gut feeling is telling me the ON carrier is in on the scam.

I have a few questions -

Is the carrier in ON of significant size? or is this a small, one man show who might be in on the scam? This matters a lot, a carrier who is of significant size would take the $1100 and move on.

Your customer is likely to get dragged into the legal suit, if they truly choose to do that. Make sure your customer is aware of that.

Personally, we would try to settle in the middle and make it go away. The amounts of money are small enough that its not worth the fight. Regardless of right and wrong in this situation.
Click to expand...
Safer shows they have 5 trucks. I did offer the whole I amount I am billing my customer, $1150CDN.
 
Threatening legal action and actually taking legal action are two different things. One is simply throwing out words, the other involves an investment of time and money. If you offered the carrier who performed the work a reasonable fee and it was refused, then it is up to him to prove to a judge that his proposed higher fee is somehow justified. Keep in mind, this carrier decided to enter into a business proposition with the fraudulent US broker/carrier of his own free will. His deal went sideways through no fault of yours or your customer. Sometimes people have to pay for their mistakes in judgement. Until you receive legal documents, move on to bigger and better things. One more thing, and to Robs very valid point. Sometimes the lowest rate doesn’t provide the required level of service. If it sounds too good to be true….it is.
 
truck111 said:
We recently booked a load from NY to ON with a new U.S. carrier. The carrier provided the POD on Friday morning and requested quick pay, which we processed that same afternoon.
Click to expand...

This right here is your problem, you set up a new US carrier on a cross-border load and paid them by quick-pay... what were you expecting? Unless its a large carrier chances are its a scam, most of your small to midsize US carriers arent crossing the border and definitely not for a 500 USD load.

At this point, I think you have made a decent effort to remedy the situation. See what they say and if they’re willing to meet you somewhere in the middle. If not, you're out of luck. But realistically, it’s not worth the time or money for someone to sue you over $1,200 USD.
 
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loaders said:
Threatening legal action and actually taking legal action are two different things. One is simply throwing out words, the other involves an investment of time and money. If you offered the carrier who performed the work a reasonable fee and it was refused, then it is up to him to prove to a judge that his proposed higher fee is somehow justified. Keep in mind, this carrier decided to enter into a business proposition with the fraudulent US broker/carrier of his own free will. His deal went sideways through no fault of yours or your customer. Sometimes people have to pay for their mistakes in judgement. Until you receive legal documents, move on to bigger and better things. One more thing, and to Robs very valid point. Sometimes the lowest rate doesn’t provide the required level of service. If it sounds too good to be true….it is.
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Thank you! The carrier finally accepted the $1150. I am glad this is over and have learned my lesson as well.
 
LrgCar said:
This right here is your problem, you set up a new US carrier on a cross-border load and paid them by quick-pay... what were you expecting? Unless its a large carrier chances are its a scam, most of your small to midsize US carriers arent crossing the border and definitely not for a 500 USD load.

At this point, I think you have made a decent effort to remedy the situation. See what they say and if they’re willing to meet you somewhere in the middle. If not, you're out of luck. But realistically, it’s not worth the time or money for someone to sue you over $1,200 USD.
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The carrier accepted thr $1150 and we paid it today. The US carrier told me he had a load to pick up from Niagara Falls to Bangor Maine so I bought the story. Lesson learned
 
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Important lessons don’t come cheap….nor should they. Your operation has benefitted from this experience and will be better as a result.
 
Rob said:
Above is where you got screwed. Small US carriers do not come to Canada I have said it hear a hundred times but brokers in their greed 500 US and your billing 1150 get all googley eyed when they see the big margin. Sorry you are fucked pay buddy that did the work and good luck finding your great new carrier that checked out from Georgia he is probably now from Texas looking for another broker with stars in their eyes at the great rates they haul for.
Click to expand...
Small US carriers do not come to Canada-
This is one of the things you should always keep in mind. Comes with experience only. I bet most even don't know how to cross the border. What is PAPS Or PARS!!
Drive on Highway 401 and see how many US-plated carriers you see not even 1 and then drive down Highway 75 South to FL or any Major highway in the USA you will see countless.
 
YYZRIDER said:
Small US carriers do not come to Canada-
This is one of the things you should always keep in mind. Comes with experience only. I bet most even don't know how to cross the border. What is PAPS Or PARS!!
Drive on Highway 401 and see how many US-plated carriers you see not even 1 and then drive down Highway 75 South to FL or any Major highway in the USA you will see countless.
Click to expand...
Yes, you are correct. I learned a lesson. Thankfully it all ended ok. Customer has his freight and is happy. We paid double but again a lesson is invaluable. Thank you!
 
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I had to add my opinion on this matter, considering we were the " actual carrier" moving the shipment. For anyone thinking this could have never happened to them, think again because thats exactly what I thought.

Fr8Guru said:
My gut feeling is telling me the ON carrier is in on the scam.

I have a few questions -

Is the carrier in ON of significant size? or is this a small, one man show who might be in on the scam? This matters a lot, a carrier who is of significant size would take the $1100 and move on.

Your customer is likely to get dragged into the legal suit, if they truly choose to do that. Make sure your customer is aware of that.

Personally, we would try to settle in the middle and make it go away. The amounts of money are small enough that its not worth the fight. Regardless of right and wrong in this situation.
Click to expand...

Unfortunatly @Fr8Guru you gut feeling was wrong. We surely werent it on the multi-layered identity theft and fraud scheme, this scammer achieved. Luckily our rapid billing led us to findout about the fraud quickly (unforuntaly not quickly enough since they still got $500 USD from the broker COD).

Thursday we picked up a shipment from NY to ON, when we emailed on a posted DAT load. We did our duedillegence and checked the validity of the poster, company, TransCredit score, profile. I was the one booking the load, so I vetted this broker to the best of my ability in a timely manner, considering our driver was empty, ready to roll, we were bidding agains a few other carriers ( my assumption), etc, etc.

The one thing I did not check is the identity of the poster in comparison to who they say they are. Email vs company domain - this simple process could and should have alerted me enough not to trust this guy. For example:

The email address I emailed from the DAT posting: kmarco@shippingdat.com
The email address we invoice to: invoices@cbtoakwood.com

There were other factors, such as the too good to be true rate, but that could be explained from my end because our truck had deadhead. Regardless, my investigation led to the following findings, which I shared with all the parties involved ( Customer = Receiver, actual broker = @truck111, the 2 companies who's identity was stolen in this case)

The scammer got ahold of a US Transportation company carrier profile and package. He then hacked a US broker DAT. Later contacted a canadian broker and obtain a load from them identifying as a US Carrier. He then posted the load back on DAT identifying as a US broker.

I am more than certain that in both cases while he took a load and sold a load, both emails he used the domains did not match the actual companies he pretended to be. A simple phone call to those companies would have revealed the fraud case from the begining. Which was initally suppose to be done by the "actual broker" and later by the "actual carrier"(me). We both failed at doing so, hence had to take a similar pay cut to resolve this situation.

My position was simple, I was the carrier who performed all the work and I need to get paid. No one offered me a settlement rightaway. Matter fact I was told not to pursue payment from customer and go after the surrety bond of the broker with whom we did not even have a contract. As I mentioned to the "actual broker" Im stating here now, we have the right to demand payment from the owner of the goods, and 90% of the time we would have got our money + legal fees had this case went to court. No one has time for this, but you know with the slim margins we are operating I aint loosing $1200 USD ( sorry not that big yet to just forgive and forget).

The first reasonable opprotunity for settlement, we agreed to settle. Nothing more to it, because we understood from the begining it was a mutual F up for both of us. I lost $500 CAD and the broker lost $500 USD.

Please be careful out there. I cant say these fraudsters are very sophisticated but they manage to some how present themselves at the right time, at the right place and pull a fast one.
 
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