Double Broker and carrier alliances

[Jim L]

I had a couple conversations today with a few brokers who are utterly frustrated about the whole double broker situation and the amount of money lost in double payments coupled with the amount of exposure they have in this area. It seems like if it's a Canada only load with any distance and a rate over 5,000 on it you are almost guaranteed that the carrier you picked is the wrong one.

I put forward the following scenario. How many of these guys are purposely double brokering it with a buddy carrier of theirs fully knowing that together as partners they might be successful in getting double the money? They wait for the original broker to pay the double broker, then the double broker calls the carrier shortly after the cheque clears to advise them to start calling the shipper and the receiver. The double broker goes dark to the original broker because they anticipate the call from the original broker and the carrier plays the downtrodden, poor lad who got screwed and is just looking for his money. Its FRAUD all around but good luck getting enough evidence to prove it enough to allow law enforcement to take action.

Together they're sure to get what they need to cover their costs. Then they try this scenario because what is there to lose but the risk of losing their credibility to a broker they for sure will never use again.

I told these guys to implement the following to thwart this scenario. The first two will filter out most of these guys who are trying to make a quick buck. If they need QP or utilize a factor for everything they are already at a big risk to do anything to get cash.

1. Don't pay Quick Pay - that only allows the double broker to collect his funds and run and hide quicker.
2. Don't pay a factoring company for the first XX (I recommended 15) loads until they prove their merit. At least you have funds if it goes sideways.
3. Don't use carriers unless they've been around for at least XX years (I recommended 5). Anybody who started post COVID is a risk.
4. Of course, do more due diligence to confirm who the carrier is. Is it a one truck operation that you gave 2 cross country loads this week?
5. Call around, ask on this forum, look through your history of other great carriers you used. If you use the link - don't take the first one that calls.
6. Only try one new carrier in a timespan that you feel is apt to take a risk with.
7. Have everyone in your brokerage office look over new carriers just in case they have dealt with them and have negative reviews.
8. Convince shippers and receivers to take pictures of the equipment that is picking up or delivering the freight.
9. Pay more to your carriers that you know do a great job and less to the new pop ups. You make less margin but you also don't lose your margin plus a lot more.
10. If you're caught with a bad apple, expose it here, other websites and google reviews. Don't let them win.

Double brokering with the anticipation of not paying the carrier is the scourge of our industry right now. Together we all have to stop it and expose it.

 

[Igor Galanter]

@Jim L : Point 8 may be configured as : and get brokers approval for loading in case of discrepancy....Somewhat like that.

 

[Jim L]

@Jim L : Point 8 may be configured as : and get brokers approval for loading in case of discrepancy....Somewhat like that.

Better yet, the shipper and receiver call the broker when the equipment arrives and when loaded so the carrier doesn't have to do it.
Broker to Carrier:
Is he there yet? Is he there yet? Is he there yet? Is he loaded? Is he loaded? Is he loaded? How many skids? What is the weight? Can you send me the paperwork? When will the driver deliver? Oh, put it on my PARS.

When I get this from the broker, I am concerned that is double brokered.

 

[TRANSPORTO]

The best way to handle it, I think, is for both the shipper and receiver to snap a pic of the vehicle's doors with the company name and vehicle details when it arrives. Then they can shoot those pics straight over to the broker.

 

[Fr8Guru]

Common sense goes a long way to thwarting it.

While I completely agree it's a massive problem, the people complaining the most about it are the ones who are doing the least due diligence. This usually means putting themselves in bad positions with certain loads.

Last minute covers or cheap rates. Mix in both... while you really got yourself a disaster.

Having a set of rules, that are non-negotiable helps a ton. We instituted that here, and while our dispatchers can get frustrated when it feels like the only option can't get approved, it's saved us plenty of times, it's just hard to track.

Also, I think we need to put a bit more onus on the carrier who is taking the load from the sketchy broker/carrier. If you see a small carrier posting a P&G load for example, the alarms should be ringing.

 

[Rob]

We never have an issue it is easy we call J&R Hall. Cost us a bit more but never an issue. Use a carrier you know and trust and sleep well folks. Want to beat the hell out of the rate sorry if you got screwed maybe next time that couple hundred for the well known carrier is the cheaper option in the long run. Have too stay dilligent as the crooks have the angles down...

 

[loaders]

We never have an issue it is easy we call J&R Hall. Cost us a bit more but never an issue. Use a carrier you know and trust and sleep well folks. Want to beat the hell out of the rate sorry if you got screwed maybe next time that couple hundred for the well known carrier is the cheaper option in the long run. Have too stay dilligent as the crooks have the angles down...

When I go back and read some of the horror stories about crappy carrier service or double brokering or just simple non payment, I have to say that the majority of the time, I have never heard of the companies involved. Rob’s point should be well taken by everyone because what he is saying is simple…..you get what you for! You want cheap, pay cheap rates and that is what you will get.

 

[duke22]

The last 2 doubles I have had were established known carriers, multiple units and inspections, who had worked for us for 5+ years. I am not even setting up new Canadian outfits a this time and still got burned (not really because it was reported prior to any payments being issued.) In both situations they were brokering them to outside carriers where they were acting as a dispatching service but not notifying anyone. Seems to be a trend, they can't get the drivers (or won't) onboarded as O/O for some reason and they are running their own MC & Insurance. In both cases the the amounts taken were $100-150. This seems to be a growing trend/issue.

 

[Rob]

The last 2 doubles I have had were established known carriers, multiple units and inspections, who had worked for us for 5+ years. I am not even setting up new Canadian outfits a this time and still got burned (not really because it was reported prior to any payments being issued.) In both situations they were brokering them to outside carriers where they were acting as a dispatching service but not notifying anyone. Seems to be a trend, they can't get the drivers (or won't) onboarded as O/O for some reason and they are running their own MC & Insurance. In both cases the the amounts taken were $100-150. This seems to be a growing trend/issue.

I do know of one actual dispatch service in Ontario and they have 10-15 guys running for them but they will tell you which carrier is on it and that is the one that does the load. Reciprocal Ventures Tim and Dennis. Have be dealing back and forth with each other for years. Them no issue. Some unknown so called service nope see them folks daily on facebook.

 

[Pinktruck4]

Just my opinion but usually the ones complaining about double brokering are the ones who are interested in selling to the cheapest carrier. My favorite is when I can see a load broker post a load on the link, I call for it, I tell them I can cover and my rate, they say we have a carrier though that's offering $$$(usually an astronomically low rate) and that I need to match it to get the load, I tell them no thanks we don't play that game. 10 mins later I see the load re posted on the link by some company I have never heard of before (11 years in the business) with a house street address as their business address. Are they double brokering the load? I can only assume...but shame on that broker, when they look up my MC they can see I work at a company that's been in business for 25 years and they chose to instead go with them. Now I understand some bigger companies are even getting desperate right now with the way things are and are doing sketchy things but this is just what I have seen.

Question: if your emailing back and forth and this happens, I have wanted to screenshot on the link and send it to the broker when I have seen the load reposted but I haven't as I think its none of my business, should we start?

 

[Shakey]

Just my opinion but usually the ones complaining about double brokering are the ones who are interested in selling to the cheapest carrier. My favorite is when I can see a load broker post a load on the link, I call for it, I tell them I can cover and my rate, they say we have a carrier though that's offering $$$(usually an astronomically low rate) and that I need to match it to get the load, I tell them no thanks we don't play that game. 10 mins later I see the load re posted on the link by some company I have never heard of before (11 years in the business) with a street address as their business address. Are they double brokering the load? I can only assume...but shame on that broker, when they look up my MC they can see I work at a company that's been in business for 25 years and they chose to instead go with them. Now I understand some bigger companies are even getting desperate right now with the way things are and are doing sketchy things but this is just what I have seen.

Question: if your emailing back and forth and this happens, I have wanted to screenshot on the link and send it to the broker when I have seen the load reposted but I haven't as I think its none of my business, should we start?

When I was on the other side of the fence, I would tell people, and some really didn't care, but that was then. I book now and then for our asset side and rat out the bad players whenever possible. I see @artmax do it on here and smile every time he does!

 

[Shakey]

I do know of one actual dispatch service in Ontario and they have 10-15 guys running for them but they will tell you which carrier is on it and that is the one that does the load. Reciprocal Ventures Tim and Dennis. Have be dealing back and forth with each other for years. Them no issue. Some unknown so called service nope see them folks daily on facebook.

The other one has been around for a long time, as well. Transport and Dispatch Services in the East end: Cindy and Debbie are all up front and you get set up with the carriers.

 

[Wiley One]

We never have an issue it is easy we call J&R Hall. Cost us a bit more but never an issue. Use a carrier you know and trust and sleep well folks. Want to beat the hell out of the rate sorry if you got screwed maybe next time that couple hundred for the well known carrier is the cheaper option in the long run. Have too stay dilligent as the crooks have the angles down...

Well put! Some of these guys moving freight only want the cheapest rate. Well cheap isn't good. Just order something from WISH. LOL

 

[Freight Broker]

Tell the shipper who you’re sending in, and tell them not to load anyone with a different name on the door. Works every time..

 

[duke22]

Sometimes the carrier companies that double broker are the ones screwing the rates. I paid $900 on an IL ltl and Yasoob sold it for $600. I didn't even make that profit margin off the first cut. Carriers are just as willing to screw each other like those scummy brokers. Sometimes paying good money still gets your stuff Double B'd, telling us we are all paying lesser than rates as a reason for this sort of scam is complete BS.

 

[MikeJr]

Just my opinion but usually the ones complaining about double brokering are the ones who are interested in selling to the cheapest carrier. My favorite is when I can see a load broker post a load on the link, I call for it, I tell them I can cover and my rate, they say we have a carrier though that's offering $$$(usually an astronomically low rate) and that I need to match it to get the load, I tell them no thanks we don't play that game. 10 mins later I see the load re posted on the link by some company I have never heard of before (11 years in the business) with a house street address as their business address. Are they double brokering the load? I can only assume...but shame on that broker, when they look up my MC they can see I work at a company that's been in business for 25 years and they chose to instead go with them. Now I understand some bigger companies are even getting desperate right now with the way things are and are doing sketchy things but this is just what I have seen.

Question: if your emailing back and forth and this happens, I have wanted to screenshot on the link and send it to the broker when I have seen the load reposted but I haven't as I think its none of my business, should we start?

Telling the broker would only strengthen your relationship. It's saying, hey look, we didn't hook up on this business, but even so I'm looking out for you because this one may be a headache for you in the future. If they thank you and do something about it good for both of you, if they shrug it off they don't care and they deserve what they get.

Keep well,
Mike

 

[ESSORTrans]

Disagree with points 2 and 3. Totally agree with points 8, 9 and 10. You can be new and trustful, old in business but play fool. Vetting carriers and brokers through different barriers like comparing addresses and phone numbers and DOT/MC on wherever you shop your loads, request BOL in the due manner in the name of the contracted carrier, check ACE and ACI, and so. Loadlink is the whorehouse for everybody now. You pay a grand to have loads posted by incognitos.