Detention Rates

M

Manitoba Moose

Member
Jul 27, 2009
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Otterburne, MB
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Hi everyone,
Just checking to see what would be fair rates to charge for detention on deliveries with flat or dropdecks.
We would like to see in the neighborhood of $150.00 per hour but I've seen rates ranging from as low as $50.00 per hour.
Has anyone ever rented a truck, trailer, and driver for $50.00 per hour?
Appreciate your feedback
Thanks in advance
 
Along the same lines , what is a fair charge to a carrier who holds a rental crane up for two days because their truck is just around the corner and is going to be there any minute .
 
Hockey, we do a large number of crane appointment deliveries. Before we get into a discussion of what is "fair", we have adopted the following policy. It must be clearly understood by the delivering carrier, that a crane will be rented and on site at a specified time to unload. It must be understood by the carrier that any delay arriving on site at the specified time will result in back charges. If there is any type of delay or breakdown prior to arrival that will result in not making the specified delivery time, the carrier must notify you so that the crane can be put off till later thereby preventing any crane waiting charges. In other words, communicate, communicate, communicate, and only employ carriers that are familiar with and understand crane deliveries. If a delay still results after following these or similar procedures and there are no other reasons for the delay other than mismanagement on the part of the carrier, it should be their responsibility to pay the crane waiting charges. Let's face it, if the carrier arrived on time and the crane wasn't there, the carrier would be entitled to their waiting time wouldn't they?
 
Well stated loaders... a little communication goes a very long way. I think that people might be surprised at how many "situations" can be avoided by carrier, broker, shipper and receiver all being in communication with each other and all being on the same page.
 
This is a little off topic with crane appointments but will put in my 2 cents...

Crane appointments are usually clearly spelled out in discussion on any loads. And I do agree that, if I can charge detention time for my driver waiting 6 hours to get unloaded, then they should be able to charge me for screwing up the delivery.

Accidents and breakdowns do happen and, like it was said before, communication is the key. If the reciever knows the "right" ETA, he can plan ahead and get the proper equipment in place. If he keeps getting B.S. ETA's then absolutely, charge the crap out of the truck for wait time.

Now, getting back to my original question on detention for decks, are the rates of $65 - $75 per hour for decks or for vans? I know there are different rates for vans (God knows why) and that's why my question was specific for decks.

Again, can anyone rent $200,000 + worth of equipment and a driver for $50 per hour? Crap, try renting a Bobcat for a day... Around here, it's $80 per hour...
 
We pay $75 /hour and bill the customer the same because it is not the drivers/trucking companies fault and they should be renumerated fairly . As for the crane charges , appointments are set well in advance and followed up on the day before and the morning of . I am talking about dispatchers who lie and tell you the truck is almost there so hold on , when they have no intention of picking up in the next 4 hours .
 
Hockey - the answer to your question is the true charge ie what is the crane company charging.
Manitoba - if we could charge what we are worth we would all be retired waiting time charges never really reflect the true cost of sitting. I can only speak for vans but it is anywhere from $35 to $65....I don't agree with it but you ask.
 
Manitoba Moose, Back to your initial question - we sometimes hire truck/trailer/driver - van or deck, for city pick-ups and deliveries for +/- $60.00-$75.00 per hour - 4 hour minimum. Obviously, that would include fuel as the truck would be in motion. As for straight demmurage of the trailer only, we have found that the rates for either vans or decks are $50-$100 per day. Detention, including the driver and power unit after your allowable loading or off loading time has expired......hmmm, should it be the same as a moving unit? Lots of variables here such as missed re-load to take the driver back home, overnight lodgings, etc., etc. One would think that if the problem was directly the fault of the shipper/receiver, they would offer some sort of reasonable restitution for having a driver and truck standing idle
 
Manitoba Moose said:
This is a little off topic with crane appointments but will put in my 2 cents...

Crane appointments are usually clearly spelled out in discussion on any loads. And I do agree that, if I can charge detention time for my driver waiting 6 hours to get unloaded, then they should be able to charge me for screwing up the delivery.

Accidents and breakdowns do happen and, like it was said before, communication is the key. If the reciever knows the "right" ETA, he can plan ahead and get the proper equipment in place. If he keeps getting B.S. ETA's then absolutely, charge the crap out of the truck for wait time.

Now, getting back to my original question on detention for decks, are the rates of $65 - $75 per hour for decks or for vans? I know there are different rates for vans (God knows why) and that's why my question was specific for decks.

Again, can anyone rent $200,000 + worth of equipment and a driver for $50 per hour? Crap, try renting a Bobcat for a day... Around here, it's $80 per hour...
Click to expand...

Moose, we run all decks, and we are usually $60-75 an hour, I've noticed that vans range from $35-50 an hour.
 
Thanks for the feedback everyone. Very inciteful info.

I know that equipment rates, based on $ value should be in the $150 per hour range but unatainable as it seems the average rates are in the $75 per hour for decks. I was hoping that we could start getting paid what it's worth. I guess it's going to have to be the old "start high" negotiation on every load for detention.

Can someone from this board of very knowledgable people explain to this prairie hayseed why van rates are so low compared to other equipment rates, keeping in mind we do not run vans? Are they that much cheaper to buy than decks and run up and down the highway?
 
Manitoba Moose............there are a lot more vans than decks.....supply and demand, people try and grab business whatever way they can so the drop waiting charges.....stupid I know but we are in the trucking business.
 
We can all talk about charging waiting time, but why is it so difficult to get a revised fax for your waiting time from some of these brokers? Lately doesn't seem to matter whether it is the big brokers or the small ones. We seem to have to fight for days to get a revised confirmation. Is there any way we can just bill them for our services and still get paid?
 
Our Customer Service battles with this quite a bit. Any "extra charges" are a fight to get a revised confirmation. Some brokers are prompt - others you'll have to chase. Email the customer - advise them of the wait time IMMEDIATELY and requiring a revised confirmation. Put a "read receipt" on the email also. If you don't get a reply - send again...When it comes to invoice time - add the charges - and accompany a copy of the original email. The broker won't be able to say "we were not informed" - because you'll have the backup. Regardless if they chose to hit the "reply to sender" acknowledgement or not....you let them know. In most cases - this has worked for us. You get to know the brokers in this industry who pay - and those who don't. For those who choose to argue and nickel dime wait times - add extra into your initial rate when they call you looking to move freight. We also note all of those brokers in our internal system that are "difficult" to deal with regarding this issue. And we let them know upfront that any extra charges - notified right away - will need to be paid. We tend not to deal with the ones that don't follow OUR terms.
 
We do it all the time with a large number of brokers, which tender freight to us for local deliver within GTA/South Ontario, depends on the relationship you have with your brokers. Trust is a two-way street. As we only provide Sameday, Rush, Direct pallets moves for brokers, their shipments tend to be consigned to us due to "expedite factor" of freight, or just the fact its a hot load, and they need it delivered asap. We obviously provide back up to support waiting time rebills/adjustments, 99% of the time we are calling broker, upon commencement of waiting time, for approval, or to see if broker and expedite loading / unloading of truck by making a simple call to their shipper, receiver, or client. Complete audit trails internally, noting what time you contacted client, name of who you spoke to, date and time, should provide all the backup if someone questions who authorized waiting time.

If course, their is always the person that authorizes verbally, then refuses to pay once invoiced..... then suddenly they wonder why we won't accept loads from them anymore.... duh....

Like I said, trust is a two way street.
 
We consistently struggle with brokers to try to get waiting time. A select few are excellent and obviously they have an understanding with their customer that waiting time will need to be paid if it happens. Other brokers are a struggle and when they deny waiting time or come up with excuses why they cannot pay then we will refuse to load another load or put the waiting time into the next load.
Carriers and load brokers must inform and bill each and every time so that shippers know that it is up to them to manage the wait. If the receiver is paying the freight then they need to get on the phone with their customer to move things along or pay the detention.
In the past I don't think this was done consistently and shippers would just keep bouncing around until they found a broker who wouldn't bug them about the waiting time but just keep changing carriers. That type of thinking has come to an end. It's time the shippers save their money by managing the carriers time at the dock instead of cutting the number of forklift drivers they have on staff.
 
You ever notice that the brokers that bitch / refuse to authorize, complain after the fact regarding waiting time are also some of the late paying culprits ? Or the ones that randomly just short pay with no back up supporting any deductions.

Failing to meet your commitments is a quick way to end up on the "do not service list". Either as a direct client, freight broker, or carrier.
 
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Jim, this situation has been going on for at least 20 years, and it is not going to change any time soon. There are just too many naive carriers that make bad decisions. Brokers/Shippers perfectly understand this opportunity and take a FULL advantage of it. - and rightly so. You can't fix stupid.... My advice- have the section pertaining to the detention chargers signed/initialed separately by the other representative BEFORE you send your truck out. The golden freight just might turn into a massive headache after 5 hrs of unpaid detention, but when your truck is there you got caught with your pants down. And NEVER, NEVER relay just on what's written on the confirmation that you get from a load broker/shipper if the detention charges are not clearly defined there. Just my 2 cents.
 
I'll chime in:
A broker has 2 (or more) agreements in place for every shipment that are mutually exclusive. One with their customer and one with their supplier. Just because one party doesn't agree to an accessorial charge doesn't mean they have the right not to pay another party. The specific terms themselves do not always match.

Fun relevant scenarios:
I have a customer that requires me to allow for 3 hours of loading (in a written agreement) at a particular shipper (for TL service). As we know, for Dry Van, 90% of carriers include an allowance of maximum 2 hours to load/unload in the rate agreed at the time of booking. IF the shipper takes 3 hours which in this case happens approximately 1 in 10 loads I am not able to say 'my customer won't pay me so I'm not paying you'.

Speaking of that 'I can't collect so I can't pay' - It's the most BS answer anyone will ever give (yes, I've given it). The truth is that answer is a not so polite way of saying your request is unreasonable, my sales team will not be able to sell the request to the customer just like you are failing at selling it to me. If the accessorial charge is a reasonable (which is 99% of the time), I thank the supplier for their hard work, extra work and send a revised off.

Here's another great one:
Great carrier delivers to a consignee. Consignee doesn't know what a ratchet strap is and CUTS 6 of them to offload the trailer (before the driver gets to the dock from his truck). My customer says "LOL, give me a break" when we requested them to review and advise of this situation. Do I tell the carrier the same thing? Not if I want to give them another load ever! Good thing CargoTek is having a moving sale, thank you Paul!!!

Bottom line is that being in 3rd party means that I have 2 important relationships to consider, I have 2 important relationships to maintain and I certainly pay out more on accessorial charges than I collect. Clarification: The instances of payout are higher than the instances of collection. There could be slight margin built in so that I can afford to pay when I can't collect.

Sorry I was jumping around there a little, this discussion has so many fun little details - I could go on all day.

Keep well,
Mike
 
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