Without starting the Broker/Carrier war again. Is anyone one else had enough of the billion page contracts with all the ways the brokers won't be able to pay you? Now they have online contracts that you can't cross off the stuff you don't agree with. Can we have a contract as well with miss picks waiting time customs papers dimensions etc? No customs papers? We fine you . No fax machine ? We fine you. Load takes up more space or weight ? We fine you .
Contracts
- Thread starter Wiley One
- Start date
Igor Galanter
Well-Known Member
20
What about to have your own , let's say, " Schedule A " or whatever , that you can add to contract from your part. If both parties agree - go ahead.
Being fairly new , I noticed that my set up doesn't fit in some agreements or contracts.
So, go fish ...
Being fairly new , I noticed that my set up doesn't fit in some agreements or contracts.
So, go fish ...
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The more pages the contract the longer they take to pay seems to be what we find. My best deals with brokers seem to be with the 5-10 people brokerages that usually do not even have a contract.
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Wiley One - Everyone has terms (ours is a one pager, we're a broker), we find carriers with over 50 trucks usually have terms 'somewhere' that we can either agree to or disagree with. In either instance, we always find a way to work together despite the 'finer print'. The terms are there for both parties and for 'extreme cases'. The basics as you mention - missed pickups, waiting time, growing freight or increases in weight absolutely needs to be discussed with your customer and you better be compensated for those things. If not, why would you take their freight again if they book one thing, allow you to perform another and not pay for the services required? A short payment without an agreement or solid discussion - isn't that basically saying "I'm going to screw you for this $50, please don't haul my freight again?" Not a great way to build a brand, nor is it a way to build relationships with suppliers.
Re: Customs Papers - most of the carriers we work with have had enough of the same issues you are experiencing and have adapted solutions. Although the large majority of the time shippers have correct paperwork indicating the correct customs broker and have copies for the driver upon arrival, when it's not provided best practice I see is a carrier who will call when the driver is still on site so that all parties can 'rush' the shipper to get the paperwork done quickly to avoid waiting time OR all parties agree that the driver can leave and the paperwork will be sent (and someone is accountable for sending) the paperwork to the carrier. We do that sometimes if the person making the paperwork is not the shipper, often times we are able to send the invoice with the carrier confirmation in those instances.
Does anyone use fax machines any more? Many carriers these days scan/send paperwork to their dispatch teams who set up and verify clearances for them, no? I thought this was being done mainly to have drivers drive and support teams assist with the administrative work. If someone tried to 'fine' me for a shipper not having a fax machine, especially if I wasn't called while the driver was on site to find the correct solution I'd ask them if they've done any transportation work in the last 15 years.
Keep well,
Mike
2
We are currently looking at online approvals, a carrier will be set up in minutes and can be done over the phone with small carriers/drivers when on the road so offers a lot of flexibility. We have been told anyone who wants to change the contract gets forwarded to the office where someone will look at it and as Mike says we will work together to resolve any changes required. We are not a large company but are looking at saving time with auto set up and compliancy controls.
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I don't have any contract apart from the load confirmation. Keep it simple..
I 've always assumed the load conformation was a contract once signed and faxed back. Most conformations have a clause that states back solicitation will result in non payment, can't get any simpler than that.
When on the road I have to do every thing myself, and other than paying truck stop fax charges, I prefer the fax. I-Phones and computers still aren't trust worthy
When on the road I have to do every thing myself, and other than paying truck stop fax charges, I prefer the fax. I-Phones and computers still aren't trust worthy
20
Speaking of faxes ... we had a good one the other day. Picked up a load and the customs invoice was supposed to have been emailed to the broker. Somehow, someone "forgot" to do that. Two hours from the border the driver calls to check his PARS ... no paperwork. So, the customs broker asked him to fax it. He did ... 120 pages faxed. Cost $259.00 USD !!! The shipper paid for the fax without hesitation.
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With regards to the contracts that we sign, has anyone ever received a copy that was actually signed by the company hiring you... does the fact that they don't even sign the contract invalidate the contract in any way?
As far as fax is concerned, Yes Mike JR. there are still those of us who work the old fashion way
We would prefer to have them e-mailed but there are still shippers who don't have or won't fax and who don't even have the possibility to scan and e-mail. We've had loads with as many as 65 PAGES . It cost us $130 to have them faxed from the only fax machine within about 75 miles... Those of you who are well into the 21st century should not presume that we have all gotten to that point. We actually have a driver who will not go to the border if he doesn't have a copy of the page with his PARS/PAPS sticker. Some of the old dogs are having a hard time trusting modern technology. Some don't even understand how a computer works. It scares them
As far as fax is concerned, Yes Mike JR. there are still those of us who work the old fashion way
We would prefer to have them e-mailed but there are still shippers who don't have or won't fax and who don't even have the possibility to scan and e-mail. We've had loads with as many as 65 PAGES . It cost us $130 to have them faxed from the only fax machine within about 75 miles... Those of you who are well into the 21st century should not presume that we have all gotten to that point. We actually have a driver who will not go to the border if he doesn't have a copy of the page with his PARS/PAPS sticker. Some of the old dogs are having a hard time trusting modern technology. Some don't even understand how a computer works. It scares them
10
you should never send out a pre-signed contract, then people can make changes and sign it and keep it and then use it against you.
and when you do receive the contract, after having read it, sign it and send it back, the customer should then also sign it and send you back a copy. If they don't send back their signed copy then you should send it back "Null & Void" to avoid any problems in the future.
Pre-signing important contracts is simply bad business management.
Just my 2 cents for this topic.
p.s. agreed some contracts are only there to pin down the service provider, whether it be a carrier or a broker.
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well, I guess that this is another fine example of how little control we have as carriers...
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Yes, there are actually quite a number of businesses that still use the fax machine, and there are quite a few shippers that refuse to allow drivers to fax customs papers to either the customs broker or back to the carrier. For us, when the shipper does that there is an additional $75.00 extra stop charge, because it actually is an extra stop.
In regards to the contract issue, you are correct in assuming the contract is null and void, as if it never existed, if a) the company hiring you has not signed it, and b) if the company hiring you has not supplied you with a signed copy. The easiest way to tell if they are actually reading the copy you signed and sent back is to change something in the wording by crossing out the original, inserting your own text, and initialing it. If they bring the subject up, they are reading it, and if they don't, they are not.
For what it's worth, there are very few transportation contracts out there that a good lawyer can't get around or out of. The first mistake usually made by those issuing contracts is that they try to contract out of law, meaning they try to say that their contract clause(s) come before the law. Even a bad lawyer will have a field day with that one. The biggest mistake usually made is they try to contract control of your trucks. That's the one I let them do. In the event of a catastrophic event where your truck is liable, that contract forwards care and control, and subsequent liability, to someone else ... i.e. Sperl v. Henry et al which has C.H. Robinson paying 23.8 million dollars to the injured parties. Lastly, you should always forward contracts to your insurance carrier before you sign them. Typically insurance companies have really, really good lawyers and you get to use them for opinions as part of the premium you pay. If you don't have that option, rethink who you're insuring with. Sometimes broker contracts (for lack of a better description) are so poorly worded that insurance company lawyers will tell you to hurry up and sign them ... LOL
A good contract is fair in both directions. From our perspective, we're seeing more and more of these.
Always remember that the courts favor the party that did not write the contract.
In regards to the contract issue, you are correct in assuming the contract is null and void, as if it never existed, if a) the company hiring you has not signed it, and b) if the company hiring you has not supplied you with a signed copy. The easiest way to tell if they are actually reading the copy you signed and sent back is to change something in the wording by crossing out the original, inserting your own text, and initialing it. If they bring the subject up, they are reading it, and if they don't, they are not.
For what it's worth, there are very few transportation contracts out there that a good lawyer can't get around or out of. The first mistake usually made by those issuing contracts is that they try to contract out of law, meaning they try to say that their contract clause(s) come before the law. Even a bad lawyer will have a field day with that one. The biggest mistake usually made is they try to contract control of your trucks. That's the one I let them do. In the event of a catastrophic event where your truck is liable, that contract forwards care and control, and subsequent liability, to someone else ... i.e. Sperl v. Henry et al which has C.H. Robinson paying 23.8 million dollars to the injured parties. Lastly, you should always forward contracts to your insurance carrier before you sign them. Typically insurance companies have really, really good lawyers and you get to use them for opinions as part of the premium you pay. If you don't have that option, rethink who you're insuring with. Sometimes broker contracts (for lack of a better description) are so poorly worded that insurance company lawyers will tell you to hurry up and sign them ... LOL
A good contract is fair in both directions. From our perspective, we're seeing more and more of these.
Always remember that the courts favor the party that did not write the contract.
2
fascinating and amazing how third party logistics ( load broker) with no assets always seem to know what is best for a carrier
2
I am being screwed over by ABF Logistics because we believed what they said don,t worry about the contract deliver please then a $20.000 claim and holding the freight payment
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@Canadian Bacon ... you do realize you are in the catbird seat don't you? As long as they withhold payment of the freight charges, you are not obligated to pay the claim. It's the law !!! At the end of nine months (check that to be sure) it's water under the bridge. So you didn't get paid the $2,500 transportation charge ... small price to pay for getting out from under the claim.
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So ask for a contract or offer one of your own. I have a contract which I rarely use.. generally only when a carrier asks for one. Some carriers seem to believe a verbose contract written in legalese somehow lends credibility to the transaction. No problem.. my contract is perfect for such occasions.
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Very few of us work off of a park bench. Many of us own or lease buildings and have employees. Sure, we brokers have no assets and your only expense is fuel, right?
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Trying to figure out if you are being sarcastic Freight Broker. You do know that we have other expenses than fuel right???
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@martinetav - WHAT?!?! No I was giving you some advice, not telling you what to do. My comment had nothing to do with what you do or don't control as carriers.
We review many contracts, and we also see many issues where people weren't careful and they got caught (either between broker & carrier or shipper & broker/carrier).
How could you possibly have taken my comment in a negative manner?!?
And @Canadian Bacon - this has nothing to do with being a carrier or a broker, it's simple business, you don't send out pre-signed contracts and you don't work with someone who doesn't send back their signed part of the contract... it has absolutely nothing to do with the transport industry...