don't think its the case anymore, lot of the bigger carrier fleets move equipment between the countries especially if there's truck repairs, equipment pool, ETC. However driver has to be a US citizen to be hauling intra-state and cross border, doesn't have to be living in Canada.
Canadian Carrier performing Interstate Moves in USA
- Thread starter Gr8Loads
- Start date
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I think canadian companies can do interstate if the driver has US work permit.
Fines are just like working without a work permit in any country.
Fines are just like working without a work permit in any country.
Real question is how will they get caught?? Only way they get caught is if someone complaints. I know some guys that does it,they alter the BOL
Or make new BOL destined for Canada. I see a lot of multiple drop loads being posted by US brokers with 2-3 drops in the US and 1-2 in Canada.
It’s only legal until you get caught.
Or make new BOL destined for Canada. I see a lot of multiple drop loads being posted by US brokers with 2-3 drops in the US and 1-2 in Canada.
It’s only legal until you get caught.
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One would think DOT inspectors know of this, if your driver gets pulled for inspection and has canadian plates but is hauling an interstate - they would audit the paperwork much more thoroughly (?) Considering this situation you described and the office edits the documents - this just lets the driver have a better case. They told me to do it and said its all legal, even sent me a BOL to provide to the customer. It really puts the company on the hook for all the fines and legal consequences.
I think this is the best answers we got so far by @LrgCar and @Freight Broker (thanks).
Its all up to the discretion of the DOT officer, I dont see border patrol ( CBP or CBSA) really caring enought about this. But if the DOT pulls you over and discovers you are moving interstate - it will all depend on how upfront and wise you are with the story. Nevertheless we dont recommend doing this, especially for companies that promote it as "legal" to the drivers! Think of the worst case scenario, this driver could lose the ability to travel into the US, potentially resulting in loss of future jobs. I am more than 100% sure that crooks who do this, will also tell the driver they dont have anymore work for him.
Be mindful of others and they will do the same to you!
No youre wrong, CBSA cares about this. They thought one of my drivers was doing intersate. They pulled his ELOG for the past two weeks to see if all the stops matched all the paperwork my driver had. Safe to say he passed with flying colours
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Your driver must be a lucky guy, because CBSA are usually very ignorant (unless they suspect something fishy). Not sure what gave your driver away as an interstate hauler? perhaps he was coming home empty...
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yes true - we had a truck breakdown in NE - so driver rented a car and drove home - we sent our truck with an attachment and hauled the brokedown truck home ... then driver bobtailed to NE and deliveerd the load and business as usualy ... so the time he came home bobtail CBSA stopped him and called the office - called the tow yard ... they thought he was power only in the US - since his crossing in a rental car didn't register ... so they thought he was there for 'extra' days
Which border crossing? 1 of our truck broke down, our driver stayed at a relative for 3 weeks while the truck got repaired, when he came back with the truck, officer asked how many days out, he said 3 weeks; explained truck broke down. That was all, no further questions. I guess it’s on the discretion of each officer.
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CBSA and CBP work hand in hand to counteract interstate, it hurts the economy on both sides of the border. We had a small outfit in BC that was busted for interstate by CBSA. The driver's story doesn't match up, the shipment coming in is from a completely different area from where the driver claims they originally offloaded etc .CBSA reports all unusual activity to CBP for investigation and vice versa. The risk-to-reward ratio is heavily skewed, US interstate freight isn't paying that much more than Canadian freight if not less. I hear our US counterparts complaining more about rates than anyone so it cant be that great. Fines and being banned from the US plus any additional action they take ie tax implications aren't worth the couple hundred bucks or a few thousand.
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So many guesses ...
There are three elements to cabotage that need to be considered, the driver, the equipment, and the freight, because they each have their own nuances.
The driver; With two notable exceptions, A Canadian driver cannot move goods between points in the United States, period.
Exception 1: The driver is a dual citizen of both Canada and the United States, or has a U.S. green card.
Exception 2: The driver is a North American Aboriginal.
The following assumes a Canadian driver going to the U.S. ...
The equipment, tractor; An IRP plated tractor can travel between any points in North America where IRP plates are respected.
The equipment, trailer; This part gets a dicey. You can unload a trailer in the U.S. and reposition it to another point in the U.S. to load back to Canada. What you cannot do is pick up an empty trailer in the U.S. and move it to another point in the U.S. and drop it there to be loaded at a later date. Once you have hooked a Canadian trailer it must come back to Canada.
The freight; Generally speaking you cannot pick up goods in the U.S. and deliver them in the U.S. However, there are a couple of exceptions.
Exception 1: If the goods were shipped from Canada to a storage facility in the United States, and have not undergone any enhancement in value, or repackaging process, a Canadian Carrier can pick up those goods and deliver them in the United States. For example if a carrier picked up a coil of steel from Stelco in Nanticoke, took it to a steel coil storage facility in Chicago, and dropped it off, provided the coil remained as it was dropped off, another Canadian carrier could pick it up in Chicago and deliver it to Albuquerque, or wherever in the U.S.
Exception 2: Free Trade Zones. In theory, a Canadian carrier could pick up a load in Toronto and deliver it to Texas, and when empty go to the Free Trade Zone in Laredo and pick up a load to be delivered in NYC, where he could also reload to come back to Canada. I personally have not tested this theory, but I suspect @JimL has, and could likely provide further insight.
In short, a Canadian driver can pick up a load in Vancouver and deliver it to Miami, then bobtail or deadhead to Los Angeles where he would either reload or pick up a loaded trailer for deliver back to St. John's, NL.
Basically the same rules apply to an American operating in Canada, except for this one key item ... An American carrier is allowed one repositioning move within Canada. An American driver can pick up a load in Miami and deliver it to Toronto, then reload in Toronto and deliver it to Vancouver, provided he reloads in Vancouver to go back to the U.S. After that one repositioning move the American driver and his trailer have to get out of the country. His tractor is welcome to stay though.
There are three elements to cabotage that need to be considered, the driver, the equipment, and the freight, because they each have their own nuances.
The driver; With two notable exceptions, A Canadian driver cannot move goods between points in the United States, period.
Exception 1: The driver is a dual citizen of both Canada and the United States, or has a U.S. green card.
Exception 2: The driver is a North American Aboriginal.
The following assumes a Canadian driver going to the U.S. ...
The equipment, tractor; An IRP plated tractor can travel between any points in North America where IRP plates are respected.
The equipment, trailer; This part gets a dicey. You can unload a trailer in the U.S. and reposition it to another point in the U.S. to load back to Canada. What you cannot do is pick up an empty trailer in the U.S. and move it to another point in the U.S. and drop it there to be loaded at a later date. Once you have hooked a Canadian trailer it must come back to Canada.
The freight; Generally speaking you cannot pick up goods in the U.S. and deliver them in the U.S. However, there are a couple of exceptions.
Exception 1: If the goods were shipped from Canada to a storage facility in the United States, and have not undergone any enhancement in value, or repackaging process, a Canadian Carrier can pick up those goods and deliver them in the United States. For example if a carrier picked up a coil of steel from Stelco in Nanticoke, took it to a steel coil storage facility in Chicago, and dropped it off, provided the coil remained as it was dropped off, another Canadian carrier could pick it up in Chicago and deliver it to Albuquerque, or wherever in the U.S.
Exception 2: Free Trade Zones. In theory, a Canadian carrier could pick up a load in Toronto and deliver it to Texas, and when empty go to the Free Trade Zone in Laredo and pick up a load to be delivered in NYC, where he could also reload to come back to Canada. I personally have not tested this theory, but I suspect @JimL has, and could likely provide further insight.
In short, a Canadian driver can pick up a load in Vancouver and deliver it to Miami, then bobtail or deadhead to Los Angeles where he would either reload or pick up a loaded trailer for deliver back to St. John's, NL.
Basically the same rules apply to an American operating in Canada, except for this one key item ... An American carrier is allowed one repositioning move within Canada. An American driver can pick up a load in Miami and deliver it to Toronto, then reload in Toronto and deliver it to Vancouver, provided he reloads in Vancouver to go back to the U.S. After that one repositioning move the American driver and his trailer have to get out of the country. His tractor is welcome to stay though.
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Guys
I have a quick question. My drivers have started rejecting because they are confused and unsure, and sadly, I don't have a proper legal document to show.
We have a drop yard in the USA, which we have been using to drop and pick Canadian inbound and outbound freight only.
For example, one driver picks up a load for Canada, drops it in the yard, then picks up another empty to pick up the second load and return to Canada. My next driver goes to the drop-off yard, drops off his empty, picks up a loaded trailer dropped by the previous driver, and comes to Canada.
Please assist.
I have a quick question. My drivers have started rejecting because they are confused and unsure, and sadly, I don't have a proper legal document to show.
We have a drop yard in the USA, which we have been using to drop and pick Canadian inbound and outbound freight only.
For example, one driver picks up a load for Canada, drops it in the yard, then picks up another empty to pick up the second load and return to Canada. My next driver goes to the drop-off yard, drops off his empty, picks up a loaded trailer dropped by the previous driver, and comes to Canada.
Please assist.
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Your driver picking up the empty trailer to go pick up the second load is doing so illegally.
Case in point ... we used to bobtail to Virginia and pick up an empty trailer to go to Georgia to be loaded for Canada. In Georgia we would drop that empty trailer and pick up an already loaded trailer to come back to Canada. Definitely illegal. However, if you never told anyone about dropping the trailer in Georgia and picking up a loaded one, it was 100% legal.
Case in point ... we used to bobtail to Virginia and pick up an empty trailer to go to Georgia to be loaded for Canada. In Georgia we would drop that empty trailer and pick up an already loaded trailer to come back to Canada. Definitely illegal. However, if you never told anyone about dropping the trailer in Georgia and picking up a loaded one, it was 100% legal.
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Yes, correct ... your CDN driver can take an empty to the drop yard and pick up a load from the drop yard that is destined for Canada, but he cannot take one from the drop yard to a place to be loaded and take it back to the drop yard. Additionally a CDN driver cannot pick up a load in the U.S. and drop it in the U.S. even if it's at a drop yard. Whether the cargo is unloaded or not is immaterial.
You need to think of your yard as receiver in your example. Your driver is taking a load from a US Origin to a US receiver. Which is a big no no.
We have a yard in Romulus, we used to the exact thing you described but safety put an end to it 2 years ago. I do not know the fully legalities of everything, but I do know DOT did not like it, so we stopped.
Lane - Grand Rapids to QC.
We had a shipper in Grand Rapids. Canadian driver would grab the load and bring to Romulus. That driver would then grab a loaded trailer from Romulus and bring it to GTA. Another driver would come and grab the loaded trailer from Romulus and bring it to QC. We would maximize hours this way as well as certain drivers would go to QC etc.
You need to either -
A) start a pool directly at the shippers facility, then you can drop and hook freely
B) Start a US fleet with a US driver to shunt trailers back and forth from the shipper to the yard. Your Canadian driver can then drop his empty at the yard and grab the loaded trailer from there. That is perfectly legal.
Here is something you can show your drivers and also show to CBP. Now remember, there are different rules that apply between what is a Customs violation and what is a Immigration violation. This document does not have specific notations to the actual law so it is still subject to scrutiny by what an officer believes is the law and what would a court say.
What @Michael Ludwig is referring to is on page 3 -
What @Michael Ludwig is referring to is on page 3 -
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No, it can't. That is the same as picking up in the U.S. and delivering to the U.S. Whether or not the trailer is unloaded is immaterial.
It's not DOT you need to worry about ... it's CBP !!!