Canada to require truck drivers to log hours electronically

[Michael Ludwig]

@jonny-chicken ... when it comes to e-logs, there are two types of drivers ... those that like them and those that hate them. If you were to research those driver's records you would find that the ones that like e-logs are the ones that run by the law ... no speeding tickets, no log book violations, no safety infractions. E-logs actually make time for drivers that have always run legal. On the other hand, drivers that have endless violations (either actual tickets or in your own audits), speeding tickets, etc, etc are the ones that hate e-logs ... simple reason is that they can't do as they please when they please. They can't lie to you or dispatch anymore. They can't spend that extra couple hours with the waitress at the truck stop and make up for it later on ... later on when they run into the back of that school bus.

@Rob ... The e-log is the great equalizer. Fly-by-Night Trucking Inc can no longer scoop your freight by promising 100 mile an hour delivery service. Every trucking company on the road now has to play by the same rules. Cost efficiency, or expense management, is your ball to manage. I buy tires, you buy tires, jonny-chicken buys tires ... why can't you, me, and jonny buy the same tires from the same guy and get a volume deal ??? Think outside the box ... it's going to be required if you're going to survive.

Kids, don't just look at how this affects you in a negative manner. Look at the affect across the industry. Look for ways you can take advantage of it. Rob, right off the bat you're in the catbird seat where you are located. As an example, you can line haul right out of your yard. Line haul drivers can go to Chicago, and local drivers can load and unload in Toronto. Your line haul guys get to spend every other night at home, and your local guys are home every night.

As for lost business ... Canadian Fruit out of Mississauga refused to load me off the docks last week because we refused to break the law and run in contravention of HoS rules.
I'm sure a number of you have already experienced this in one form or another, and if you haven't, you will soon.

Got this from a Landstar exec ... if a shipper or receiver tries to get a Landstar driver to break the rules, the driver is to not move his truck and to call in to Landstar immediately. Landstar Compliance Office will take the ball from there. They call the local police, the state troopers, and the DOT, and have them all attend the offender's business, whereupon the offender will be schooled in the way of all things HoS ... and then he'll be charged with coercion ... Landstar insists on it.

 

[Freight Broker]

OOIDA offers discounts to its members for fuel, tires and I believe parts as well. There are a couple of other cooperatives around that offer the same.. but how close their discounts are to what the big fleets are able to get I don't know.

 

[rickwill]

E-logs won't work. All they do is make the e-log the overseer and the driver the slave. When it's mandatory I'm either in an older truck or done. Who's paying the extra expense for these things, Yep you guessed right the one who always gets screwed BUT never kissed.
I liked it better when it was 10 and 8 and split the sleeper. Also my dispatcher used to say when can you deliver not you will deliver at this time. A 2500 mile trip from Edmonton to Houston was always six days. That's 500 a day plus one day for breakdown or party time ( can't afford to stop now days ).
The E-log is detrimental to ones health because it causes stress and worry, you can't stop to wait out traffic or eat or even have the runs just do like their doing now shit in a bag and through out the window.

 

[jonny-chicken]

E-logs won't work. All they do is make the e-log the overseer and the driver the slave. When it's mandatory I'm either in an older truck or done. Who's paying the extra expense for these things, Yep you guessed right the one who always gets screwed BUT never kissed.
I liked it better when it was 10 and 8 and split the sleeper. Also my dispatcher used to say when can you deliver not you will deliver at this time. A 2500 mile trip from Edmonton to Houston was always six days. That's 500 a day plus one day for breakdown or party time ( can't afford to stop now days ).
The E-log is detrimental to ones health because it causes stress and worry, you can't stop to wait out traffic or eat or even have the runs just do like their doing now shit in a bag and through out the window.

I read that last line of your comment out loud in our office... lots of laughing out loud... haahaa...

Sorry to make light of it, I'm sure some people are actually doing that... but sounded funny the way you put it...

 

[jonny-chicken]

@jonny-chicken ... when it comes to e-logs, there are two types of drivers ... those that like them and those that hate them. If you were to research those driver's records you would find that the ones that like e-logs are the ones that run by the law ... no speeding tickets, no log book violations, no safety infractions. E-logs actually make time for drivers that have always run legal. On the other hand, drivers that have endless violations (either actual tickets or in your own audits), speeding tickets, etc, etc are the ones that hate e-logs ... simple reason is that they can't do as they please when they please. They can't lie to you or dispatch anymore. They can't spend that extra couple hours with the waitress at the truck stop and make up for it later on ... later on when they run into the back of that school bus.

Got this from a Landstar exec ... if a shipper or receiver tries to get a Landstar driver to break the rules, the driver is to not move his truck and to call in to Landstar immediately. Landstar Compliance Office will take the ball from there. They call the local police, the state troopers, and the DOT, and have them all attend the offender's business, whereupon the offender will be schooled in the way of all things HoS ... and then he'll be charged with coercion ... Landstar insists on it.

I agree, some are as you describe, but I think some of them are just older guys who are set in their ways and don't like change, or don't want to lose the little bit of control they still have over their day. Some of these guys just won't stick around or be able to adapt, I guess we'll see. As a business, we'll move on, if the laws are changed we will change with them.

That story from Landstar sounds pretty heavy handed... It makes sense to walk away if they are refusing to load you (what else can you do really), but to get all those government authorities down there just seems a bit over the top to me...

We have had customers ask us to do things outside the rules, and when they do we just inform them of the rules, and why they exist (public safety). It's understood and respected I think.

 

[Freight Broker]

Anyone remember the uproar in 1989 when HOS regs and logs were first introduced in Canada? The elog thing is just something else we're going to need to get used to.

 

[Rob]

Mike,

I have no issue with the elogs it was the equal playing crap field that irks me. DB and his cronies like the term when it suits their needs, not the needs of all.

Elogs are like every other regulation that has been pushed down our throats. To me for elogs to work and if it is about safety then they need to bring back the split sleeper berth. I ran for 20 years otr and I was a napper. I would stop and nap during rush hours etc to maximize my driving time and productivity all the while still getting the sleep needed and the work done. Without a split sleeper berth provision a man that starts at 6am but needs a power nap after lunch for an hour or two is being pushed to drive tired?? How is that safe?? Paperlogs all the while it would be against the law to not show the nap in the proper time in the book at least he had the nap and did not wipe out my family because some really dumb law said he had to go because of the rules.. If it is about safety then make it safe and have a split sleeper provision and scrap the 14 hour non stop clock bullshit.

 

[ShawnR]

@Rob pretty sure you need to have a break within your 10hr drive day. correct me if I'm wrong but I believe it is a 14hr work day, 10 hrs driving, 4 hrs non-driving work, and you have to have a break after 8hrs driving

 

[ShawnR]

actually I believe this sums it up.

FMCSA HOS regulations limit when and how many hours a driver can be on duty (USA):

14 hour On-Duty limit. On Duty defined as:
•Loading and unloading a CMV,
•Supervising/assisting/attending/remaining in readiness to drive,
•Giving receipts for shipments loaded or unloaded.
•Driving
•Must have 10 consecutive hours rest after 14 hours On Duty.

11 hour Driving limit
•All time behind the wheel is driving time. Cannot exceed 8 consecutive hours of driving without 30 min. break.

34 hour Rest required
•Driver must rest 34 hours every 7 days or 168 hrs.
•Rest period must include 2 consecutive periods between 1:00am and 5:00am.

 

[martinetav]

I agree, some are as you describe, but I think some of them are just older guys who are set in their ways and don't like change, or don't want to lose the little bit of control they still have over their day. Some of these guys just won't stick around or be able to adapt, I guess we'll see. As a business, we'll move on, if the laws are changed we will change with them.

That story from Landstar sounds pretty heavy handed... It makes sense to walk away if they are refusing to load you (what else can you do really), but to get all those government authorities down there just seems a bit over the top to me...

We have had customers ask us to do things outside the rules, and when they do we just inform them of the rules, and why they exist (public safety). It's understood and respected I think.

I think Landstar is taking the proper steps. Shippers have, up until now, been able to just change transport companies because there is always someone who will do it. Gotta love the trucking industry for that. Always someone to do the job no matter what... I think this is just a way to get their shippers in line and I congratulate them for it. Just like my sister who teaches high school and is all of 5 feet 2 inches. Really strict the first weeks and then, depending on the group, she can let up a bit ...

 

[JN1981]

34 hour Rest required
•Driver must rest 34 hours every 7 days or 168 hrs.
•Rest period must include 2 consecutive periods between 1:00am and 5:00am.

These provisions were removed by congress pending FMCSA coming up with any data that proves it makes anything safer. A driver never HAD to take a 34 hour rest every 168 hours under this rule they were limited to only 1 34 hour reset every 168 hours. They could run indefinitely as long as they did not exceed 70 hours in 8 days.

What Rob is saying has nothing to do with the 30 minute break, the 30 minute break currently mandated does not stop the '14 hour clock' splitting the sleeper berth time would stop the '14 hour clock' and allow drivers better rest when they need it instead of forcing them to drive tired to maximize their available hours.

 

[ShawnR]

ah ok I get what you mean

 

[Rob]

Yes Shawn all correct and is sure looks nice on paper. Seem's like lots of time to do whatever is needed. But in order to have the 11 hours of making money (driving) a driver has 2.5 hours in which to load, unload, eat, pee, poo, have a nap, cross border, do paperwork, circle check equipment etc etc.

That is why I would like to see the 14 hr rules scrapped and split sleeper brought back. Not to stretch the day but to make it so the driver has time to be a human and not a machine who has to run tired, hold their bladder, be afraid to stop and eat because someone who does not know a 5th wheel from a steering wheel says that is what must be done because the freight has to move this far today to maximize productivity.

Buy the way elogs can be fudged just like a paper log. I have had a couple drivers show me how. If a man makes the program another learns how to manipulate it. Your are fooling yourself if you think otherwise. Just like speed limiters not hard to bypass and most O\O's have done it as have lots of companies just run the 401 and follow the trucks 105 my ass.

 

[jonny-chicken]

I think Landstar is taking the proper steps. Shippers have, up until now, been able to just change transport companies because there is always someone who will do it. Gotta love the trucking industry for that. Always someone to do the job no matter what... I think this is just a way to get their shippers in line and I congratulate them for it. Just like my sister who teaches high school and is all of 5 feet 2 inches. Really strict the first weeks and then, depending on the group, she can let up a bit ...

But I bet your sister doesn't call the cops on the kids when she catches one of them tripping someone... haahaa... Joking...

When someone parks on my street and blocks my driveway, I don't call the bylaw... I just go out and tell them to GTFO... haahaa.. Others might call the bylaw and watch the show through the window...

To each their own...

 

[martinetav]

But I bet your sister doesn't call the cops on the kids when she catches one of them tripping someone... haahaa... Joking...

When someone parks on my street and blocks my driveway, I don't call the bylaw... I just go out and tell them to GTFO... haahaa.. Others might call the bylaw and watch the show through the window...

To each their own...

I hear you. What it does do for my sister is earn their respect. I think that shippers do not respect the trucks they call (for the most part) We all know that, in general, not many people outside the business have much respect for truckers because they judge us all by the dirty, smelly, disgusting guys that the media always seem to find when they need to interview someone after an incident.

 

[jonny-chicken]

I hear you. What it does do for my sister is earn their respect. I think that shippers do not respect the trucks they call (for the most part) We all know that, in general, not many people outside the business have much respect for truckers because they judge us all by the dirty, smelly, disgusting guys that the media always seem to find when they need to interview someone after an incident.

Haahaaa... dirty, smelly, disgusting guys... I've met a few of those here... haahaaa...

I hear you on the respect thing though. Makes sense.

I'm pretty sure that in our case, when customers have requested something outside the rules, I believe they may not actually understand, or just even think about, the rules that we have to follow. I could be wrong of course, they could be playing dumb... But I feel with the customers we have, there is really nobody who wants or asks us to do something they think is dangerous. They all have to drive on these roads too and I'm sure they don't want to have someone's death or injury on their conscience just because they wanted to get a load of product somewhere fast.

I'm sure there are people who really don't care, but I feel fortunate enough to be working for people who do.

 

[Salma]

I agree with @Rob . The split sleeper needs to be brought back. All of this over-regulating with HOS and elogs has completely eliminated the "human" variable that dominates this entire industry! For example, how many of you have gotten a decent night's sleep, ate a pretty good breakfast, felt alert and ready for a day at the office when, BLAM! - all of a sudden, one hour into your shift you suddenly feel EXHAUSTED for no apparent reason and you feel like you need to take a break or just close your eyes for five minutes? It happens to all of us and it happens to drivers too. Just because they had a full 10 hours of sleep and are starting the day with fresh hours does not mean that he/she will not get sleepy within the first few hours of driving and need to stop for a few minutes to "recharge". We are all different and we know when we are tired, when we are hungry, when we have to pee, etc. but it doesn't happen on a "clock" that is the same for everyone. "Siestas" (afternoon naps/breaks) were invented for a reason. To maintain optimum health and energy stores, our bodies were designed in such a way that afternoon rests are MANDATORY. Without these breaks, illness and disease flourish. Over time, elogs may actually slow things down a little bit. No more go, go, go and "guaranteed" delivery at the crack of dawn. I think that would be a good thing. As long as they are safe and following the rules, let the drivers do their thing and leave them alone.

 

[Freight Broker]

I agree Salma.. but unfortunately logs and elogs are here to stay. I remember a time when one could get behind the wheel of truck and not have to worry about logs in Canada. And then we had that bad accident in the Lafontaine Tunnel in Montreal which played a big role in bringing about US style HOS regs here in Canada. That happened in 87 or 88, and not long after that the HOS rules came in. The rules are certainly a long way from being perfect, but we need something, and they are the best we have right now.

 

[Rob]

I agree Salma.. but unfortunately logs and elogs are here to stay. I remember a time when one could get behind the wheel of truck and not have to worry about logs in Canada. And then we had that bad accident in the Lafontaine Tunnel in Montreal which played a big role in bringing about US style HOS regs here in Canada. That happened in 87 or 88, and not long after that the HOS rules came in. The rules are certainly a long way from being perfect, but we need something, and they are the best we have right now.

I have to disagree. The rules with split sleep and no 14 hr clock where much better for the driver and public safety. Yes rules are needed but not pushy ones like we have now.

 

[lowmiler88]

Hauling Ass I've been in this industry for 35 years and you name it I've done it including driving most of the US, never went over the mountains in a truck but I'm not sure I ever wanted that experience in a truck. Plans always change in this industry but as an obvious super trucker maybe slow down a bit and try and understand what I'm saying in having a plan. Know when to start your log, if you don't have a load don't move your truck, if you are going to a customer with strict appointments don't show up 2 hours early knowing nothing is going to happen and your log is ticking away, maybe instead of using truck stop logic maybe sit back and think things through and yes nothing ever goes to plan but I can tell you the professional drivers in our fleet have not seen their pay decrease and remember the word professional because their are a lot of drivers who know nothing about their pay except what goes into their bank account (as in they do not know how that amount was reached) but make wild assumptions because change is scary. I guess what I'm basically saying is use your ELD the same as the logs you hand into the safety department and guess what you get 10 hours a day off novel I know but the longer you do this the longer you realize what you that neat little nudge nudge wink wink that you think is making you money is usually not a long term solution and it will come back to bite you. Ok that is my rant for the day everyone will be ELD in less than 2 years and time is flying by god I sound like my parents getting old sucks.