Cheap Freight of the Day

[theman]

Sometimes it's also in a tight market where one has to accept freight at a given rate. My thing always has been that if I have a contractual relationship with someone with a primary award I will cover everything ... even if there are some transactions at a loss. But sometimes a shipper can't get their primary carrier to pick up a shipment and they will broadcast it ... but one doesn't want to risk losing money on the transaction because the next time the transaction comes up, it's still going to the primary awarded carrier. Pricing really can be an art sometimes.

 

[Moreloadsthanyou]

Hey Rob,

I wasn't implying the carrier 'should' give us a break vs. everyone else, I was thanking them for when they do. The carrier (sometimes) claims they are offering us a slightly lower price - perhaps they prefer to work with us in those instances? They like how we book pickup and delivery apts when required, they like dealing with our staff vs. some of the others, they like that we always go to bat for accessorial charges when they apply (we don't tell them to collect from the shipper/consignee themselves), 99.9% of the time the customs broker listed on our confirmation is correct, that kind of thing. I'm sure other times they are telling someone else the same thing.

Absolutely the point of my post was that we appreciate when carriers notify us that it's being broadcast to everyone in the industry (because we may not know otherwise) and the only way I'll get the order is to be the broker that quotes the smallest margin. Too many of those in a row (without getting the business) and it's time to politely ask the client to be removed from the 'list'.

We do NOT: 'pay the lowest on every order no matter the quality of carrier, no matter their SAFER score, no matter if they have active insurance or not, no matter the holes in the trailer, no matter the service requested by the customer and then to charge the customer the most they are willing to pay'. Rather, good brokers that want to be in it for the long run that want to build relationships with customers, carriers and all 3 parties grow their businesses together and all 3 parties make fair margins together. If our client needs 'very strong service at a fair price' and you have a truck there we're both in luck - after all you get what you pay for!! Never had a late shipment with you, never had a claim with you either!!

Keep well sir,
Mike

You Say: Rather, good brokers that want to be in it for the long run that want to build relationships with customers, carriers and all 3 parties grow their businesses together and all 3 parties make fair margins together

How do expect carriers to grow and business prosper when you offer rates like the below ?

 

[MikeJr]

If you'd like to discuss our payables you may absolutely contact anyone in our dispatch team OR me directly (24 hours a day).

Linda (and all dispatch here) are instructed to try and give our shipments to the carriers that have requested to be on our email list, the carriers that have done the loads before as they may want them again. If you'd like to be removed from the list, please let me know, I'll take good care of your request.

Keep well,
Mike
Direct line: 905-702-5610

 

[TransAction]

When I started this business on my own, 9 years ago, I had some customers I could contact as I was in sales for some larger companies previously. The issue is, I had no accounts or credit with carriers, no real value proposition except for I am new, I am eager and I will service the heck out of ya! My only way of booking any carriers without history was load link. In fact, I remember it was Dave at Synergy Transport who was my first call from the link. (nicest guy, I think he is at HUB now?) The only way for me to pick up clients was to post loads, negotiate a good rate in hopes that is how I could impress my client and marking up some loads $25 just to get the business. Heck, I was working out of my apartment, no staff, no overhead.

Over the years, I have learned many things the hard way. I learned that chasing the cheapest rate and using any old carrier can cost you dearly in the long run. A customer who uses you just because you are $25.00 cheaper than the next guy will not be with you long term. I could go on for a while.....

We now have a value proposition with real merit that we can present to many customers while offering them "compensative" rates. We've built the business based on what we've learned through blood sweat and tears. Looking back, I am not sure there is any other way I could have made it to where I am today. We did start down the path of the cheap, many postings type broker but we always treated our carriers as partners, and gave respect to those who gave it back. I believe the main difference is we did not continue down this path as we began to build our reputation, credit, accreditations, etc., we where able to offer more value to our customers and our carriers.

I guess my point is that we will always run into these $25 mark-up type brokers but keep in mind, some of these guys are just trying to build a viable business and not trying to screw anyone in the process. I think that if you give some if these guys a chance, they too will grow into large, viable partners.

 

[loaders]

Transaction, your experiences starting up a new brokerage firm are somewhat similar to mine, although mine took place 25 years ago. One thing that I did in the early days, and continue to this day, was to make sure the carriers I used were paid within their terms, even if it meant waiting longer for my customer to pay me. Needless to say, those days didn't afford me any kind of salary to speak of, and there were plenty of sleepless nights! From a carrier's perspective, it really boils down to two things, will I get paid, and how long will I have to wait for my money? Once you have demonstrated that yes, you will be paid and within your terms, you have eliminated that doubt and can now develop a good working partnership with pretty much anyone you choose. Low rates are an unfortunate part of this business, and they will continue to be a part as long as there is just one supplier (carrier) who agrees to accept them.

 

[TransAction]

Transaction, your experiences starting up a new brokerage firm are somewhat similar to mine, although mine took place 25 years ago. One thing that I did in the early days, and continue to this day, was to make sure the carriers I used were paid within their terms, even if it meant waiting longer for my customer to pay me. Needless to say, those days didn't afford me any kind of salary to speak of, and there were plenty of sleepless nights! From a carrier's perspective, it really boils down to two things, will I get paid, and how long will I have to wait for my money? Once you have demonstrated that yes, you will be paid and within your terms, you have eliminated that doubt and can now develop a good working partnership with pretty much anyone you choose. Low rates are an unfortunate part of this business, and they will continue to be a part as long as there is just one supplier (carrier) who agrees to accept them.

Same deal with me. Paid everyone first, was a while before I saw any sort of pay check. Still go through the same thing today, employees, government, shareholders, landlord, etc, get their $$$ first. I am still waiting to pay myself dividends from last year! It's lonely at the top!

 

[Freight Broker]

I started my business back in 2005 without the use of any load board. My first loads were out of Fort Smith, AR to Vancouver, BC. I called Werner, and they took care of them. After that I used Werner for a bunch of other stuff as well as YRC who was also giving me credit. To this day I use the boards very sparingly... I find it easier to simply call people who might have trucks in the right spots, and in most cases that works out to be a lot quicker than posting and hoping that someone calls. My experience starting out seems to have been much different from most. For the first two months it was a struggle, but then I latched on to a couple of large accounts, and we went from impoverished to downright wealthy in about six months. no kidding. I was putting my home mortgage payments on Visa back in mid 05, by mid 06 half the house was paid off. So far so good... its been quite an experience so far, but every setback has made me and us stronger.

 

[martinetav]

Just a reminder to Brokers, we carriers don't get a lot of time to pay our expenses. Fuel is paid one week later. Tolls are paid as we go or are pre-paid because they take money and deduct as we go. The bridge at Detroit/Windsor is far from free and, here anyway, the driver is paid within 2 weeks. So on top of many shippers really low rates (we are getting less now for the same load than we got 10 years ago) we have to finance them for 30 to 90 days... sometimes more... Just saying...

 

[TransAction]

Just a reminder to Brokers, we carriers don't get a lot of time to pay our expenses. Fuel is paid one week later. Tolls are paid as we go or are pre-paid because they take money and deduct as we go. The bridge at Detroit/Windsor is far from free and, here anyway, the driver is paid within 2 weeks. So on top of many shippers really low rates (we are getting less now for the same load than we got 10 years ago) we have to finance them for 30 to 90 days... sometimes more... Just saying...

That's why I pay you in 35 days. Doesn't that deserve a $50 better rate than a broker that pays you in 90?

 

[loaders]

There is certainly no disputing that the expenses of carriers are different from those of freight brokers. Many of them, as you pointed out, are payable immediately or within a few days. I believe that is the reason why transport companies who broker freight, tend to take longer to pay their brokering invoices compared to a stand alone broker. They have other, "more pressing" demands than paying for a load another carrier did for them. Based on the posts found on this site, it certainly appears that way.

 

[martinetav]

That's why I pay you in 35 days. Doesn't that deserve a $50 better rate than a broker that pays you in 90?

yes and no transaction. Our cost don't go down. For example, the transbonder. All transport companies that cross the border are obliged to have one to cross the border. They will be going up to $350. that's up over $100. Tolls are going up in every region, the bridges keep rising too. Fuel taxes keep rising. Did you know for example that it cost us, on top of everything else, 17 cents a mile to roll on OR highways. We still finance for about 30 days. By the time you are invoiced, we have probably already, or are about to pay the fuel and have already paid all of the other expenses out of pocket. We very much appreciate being paid rapidly, but that 50$ can make a difference in whether or not we make or lose money on a load. After all, we are the ones that take most of the risk in moving a load. Don't you think that we have the right to make a profit also

 

[whatiship]

That's why I pay you in 35 days. Doesn't that deserve a $50 better rate than a broker that pays you in 90?

Hate to say it but, no it doesn't if 30 days are the terms.

 

[Freight Broker]

Internet Truckstop shows me at 3 days to pay.

 

[TransAction]

yes and no transaction. Our cost don't go down. For example, the transbonder. All transport companies that cross the border are obliged to have one to cross the border. They will be going up to $350. that's up over $100. Tolls are going up in every region, the bridges keep rising too. Fuel taxes keep rising. Did you know for example that it cost us, on top of everything else, .17 cents a mile to roll on OR highways. We still finance for about 30 days. By the time you are invoiced, we have probably already, or are about to pay the fuel and have already paid all of the other expenses out of pocket. We very much appreciate being paid rapidly, but that 50$ can make a difference in whether or not we make or lose money on a load. After all, we are the ones that take most of the risk in moving a load. Don't you think that we have the right to make a profit also

Sorry, I realize it's hard to sense sarcasm in the typed word. Just trying to get you going. We all deserve to make a profit! All the best!

 

[Freight Broker]

Sometimes we're all our worst enemies. From my side of the fence I see very few carriers who go beyond the minimum. For example, how many or what percentage will call to notify that the truck is loaded/empty? I'd guesstimate somewhere around 5%. The rest don't bother with it.. And I suppose the same could be said for brokers although I don't work with other brokers and therefore have no first hand experience with bad brokers. That said, I've got several carriers in my fold who are beyond exceptional. I tell them they should write a "how to" manual for the rest. Sometimes shippers will even call me to praise a particular driver. "Wow.. where did you find that guy?" they'd ask. It really makes a difference when all the i's are dotted and the t's crossed. On another note, I (and probably every other broker out there) understands how important timely payments are. Yet you wouldn't believe how many carriers drag their feet in getting their invoices out and how many lose track of the invoice altogether. I spend time on the phone every month with carriers asking them to please send in their invoices so that I may pay them. Crazy, but true. A few years back I hounded one carrier for their invoice... finally the accounts receivable lady told me straight up to quit calling.. that the invoice had already been paid. It turned out that they had sent the invoice to the WRONG broker, and that broker went ahead and paid it.. nice.. the $3600.00 that shipper paid me went right into my pocket.

 

[loaders]

Examples like that go a long way in explaining why some carriers elect to use factoring companies! I guess the whole invoicing thing is way too complicated for them to do in house. Every broker has had similar experiences trying to get an invoice/POD for a load delivered weeks ago.

 

[Freight Broker]

If I sense the invoice function is too much for them I offer to make it simple... just send me the POD...that's it! I appreciate that paperwork isn't everyone's strong suit. And when I look at my carrier base, I see mostly smart people who have limited book learnin.. Some can tear apart an engine and put it back together again, and think nothing of it. But ask them to generate an invoice.. man.. you're now asking too much. Maybe this is why the industry has gravitated to brokers as being distinct from carriers. The sales people generally don't understand the ops side and vice versa, and division of labour makes perfect sense.

 

[thebluffs1]

If I sense the invoice function is too much for them I offer to make it simple... just send me the POD...that's it! I appreciate that paperwork isn't everyone's strong suit. And when I look at my carrier base, I see mostly smart people who have limited book learnin.. Some can tear apart an engine and put it back together again, and think nothing of it. But ask them to generate an invoice.. man.. you're now asking too much. Maybe this is why the industry has gravitated to brokers as being distinct from carriers. The sales people generally don't understand the ops side and vice versa, and division of labour makes perfect sense.

I have to be truthful, when I read this post, I see the genesis of everything that is wrong with this industry ( a complete lack of respect), and the unspeakable arrogance of someone who is willing to paint with a broad brush, without having the intellectual capacity to grasp the fact that the only the asset based carriers who excel at process and process management will be around for the long term. When I read the observation that the carrier base does not have a lot of "book learning", I personally think that not all of us on the carrier side feel the need to flaunt the letters behind our name, or expect a pat on the back because we have the ability to both attain and deploy the knowledge that we've learned in our post graduate work.

As an asset based carrier, we are pretty good at invoicing day of delivery, without a lot of drama. Additionally for the observation that the division of labour makes perfect sense - it seems to be lacking a fair bit of nuance that would be used by any reasonable individual who wasn't suffering from anal cranial inversion. I'm certainly not a medical professional capable of remote diagnosis, but reading historical posts would certainly indicate that may be a fairly clear and concise way of describing the content.

Everyone - this industry needs a significant improvement in the amount of respect afforded to the asset based carriers and their operations staff who go above and beyond on a consistent and regular basis. Let's up the game, people!

 

[Freight Broker]

You're pretty arrogant yourself when you state that only those who excel at process management will be around for the long term. You don't know that. Lots of old school operators around who wouldn't know "process management" to see it... yet they somehow survive and thrive and have for years. I've been at this for awhile, and a large number of my carriers have no HS diploma i.e. book learin. I'm not passing judgement here, just stating the facts. Moreover, in my earlier post I stated that most carriers are generally of a more practical bent, again just a personal observation based on my own experience, with no judgement attached. As for respect, well, speaking for myself only (I can't speak for the industry) I offer respect in the form of prompt payments in three days or less with no fees... polite and accurate communication at all times.. giving my carriers the benefit of the doubt when things go awry. That's how I show respect. Perhaps sir, you should put your post graduate degree aside for a minute and look in the mirror. You state respect is lacking in this industry when you don't communicate with any level of respect yourself... maybe you should start by setting the example instead of casting dispersions on others or decrying the state of the industry.

 

[bull958]

If I sense the invoice function is too much for them I offer to make it simple... just send me the POD...that's it! I appreciate that paperwork isn't everyone's strong suit. And when I look at my carrier base, I see mostly smart people who have limited book learnin.. Some can tear apart an engine and put it back together again, and think nothing of it. But ask them to generate an invoice.. man.. you're now asking too much. Maybe this is why the industry has gravitated to brokers as being distinct from carriers. The sales people generally don't understand the ops side and vice versa, and division of labour makes perfect sense.

Being a lowly carrier, I realize I may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer. But I find this offensive. I think...