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Carriers already experiencing difficulties finding drivers and O/Os, CTHRC study show
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some carriers offering $1.23 a mile to the truck -how do you pay for a new truck and your home and feed yourself retierment plus everything else we need in life at those kind of rates .unless you live in your truck and own nothing ever you mite get by. and hope your truck dosent ever need a wrecker or a mechanic.i guess this is why they cant get guys o/o to come work for them.O/O they are not as dum as most think O/O are people too give us a little credit we deserve a life like everyone else . being broke living in a truck is not a life .if truckers decided not to truck the goods anymore and get other jobs how long would the economy go on .guys are getting tierd of not getting paid .sitting and waiting for days .no wonder there having trouble getting drivers and O/O there parking there rigs and getting other jobs not driving .
Heavy Hauler,
While I understand your concern regarding making a living, I have been in this Industry over 20 years. Not long compared to some on this board, but long enough to get a decent understanding of it. And I will tell you something....if you are a good driver, not a star, not an illegal runner, just a good driver you can make a good living being a COMPANY DRIVER. You don't need to worry about your truck, fuel or much else except doing a good job and with alot of the good companies out there, many on this board, you can earn a decent buck. It drives me nuts when I hear NON DRIVERS complain about not earning enough money or there are no jobs out there. There are plenty of good jobs out there for good drivers. The problem we are currently (for a long time now) having is the young people out there don't want to get into it...it doesn't have the appeal...no one in school says "I'm going to be a trucker". So beat up everyone you want, but if you don't like it get out. I'm sure you will find a much better paying job out there in today's workplace. (not)
While I understand your concern regarding making a living, I have been in this Industry over 20 years. Not long compared to some on this board, but long enough to get a decent understanding of it. And I will tell you something....if you are a good driver, not a star, not an illegal runner, just a good driver you can make a good living being a COMPANY DRIVER. You don't need to worry about your truck, fuel or much else except doing a good job and with alot of the good companies out there, many on this board, you can earn a decent buck. It drives me nuts when I hear NON DRIVERS complain about not earning enough money or there are no jobs out there. There are plenty of good jobs out there for good drivers. The problem we are currently (for a long time now) having is the young people out there don't want to get into it...it doesn't have the appeal...no one in school says "I'm going to be a trucker". So beat up everyone you want, but if you don't like it get out. I'm sure you will find a much better paying job out there in today's workplace. (not)
Agree with you completely Packrat. I have a couple of friends who are company drivers. Both only have a high school diploma and make decent money considering. You can always go work full time at Walmart for 20K a year or stay in school. The choice is yours.
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With all due respect Packrat, it's attitudes like that which is why many veteran drivers have left the industry. There are other jobs out there which pay just as much, have stability in knowing what your earnings will be each pay period and require much less time away from home.
It's not just a lack of young people wanting to get in, it's veteran drivers telling them not to because of the way a great number of carriers have treated their drivers over the past 20+ years.
Are there still good companies out there paying well, yes. But not nearly enough obviously or there wouldn't be a driver shortage.
Until we change the mindset to where there's a reason for veteran drivers to promote this industry as a good lifestyle where a man/woman can make enough to help buy a house, raise a family and live comfortably, things won't change.
Myself, I try and give back to the new guys coming in and enjoy teaching them to do things the proper way just as I was once taught many years ago. But you can't teach guys if they don't view this as a long term career opportunity worth having.
Snafu, Attitudes like what? That based on my experience a good driver can find employment with a good company and earn a good living? I am pretty sure that promotes the industry. Not take away from it. And let's not confuse the topic...There is bad everything in this industry...carriers, drivers, brokers, governing bodies, etc. I'm just saying that one CAN earn a good living if one wants to. It may take a couple companies to get the right fit but if you're good there are LOTS of good companies that will take you one and work to keep you.
PS...this thread is going to be a long one if think
PS...this thread is going to be a long one if think
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I was referring to the notion that if you don't like it get out.
Yes it does promote the industry but unfortunately the good companies are harder to find for many.
Agreed but the number of times a driver has to hop from job to job to find that pearl is also a detriment to all. Nobody likes a job hopper.
PS...this thread is going to be a long one if think
At least 10 pages.Have a great weekend!
Shakey
Site Supporter
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All it takes is stop playing the victim and do something about it yourself and take controll of your own life and stop waiting for everyone else to fix it. Blaming everyone else why you can't make a decent living is not helping yourself get to your goals in life. Look in mirror and do something about it. Ensure you confirm what a company it telling you before you sign up and start driving down the road for them. We live in free country with supply and demand driving our economy and prices for goods and services. No you can go ahead and start tossing it at me but until you do this you will be in the same situation no matter what industry you work in as they ALL have BAD owners in them all transport is not the only one with bad owners. You can tell me that EVERY driver and EVERY O/O in transport is getting screwed!
Have a great Friday and weekend all
Have a great Friday and weekend all
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My last comment on this would be this:
Your drivers are your best salesmen, they're the ones who can best recruit drivers for you.
It's much like what the Toronto Blue Jays have to deal with when it comes to signing free agents.
Many players want nothing to do with the Jays because they've heard nothing good about having to deal with customs on a regular basis or how living in Toronto is a different lifestyle than what they could have playing for a U.S. based team. The Jays have to throw more money at prospects to entice them into their organization. Word of mouth from the players already in the organization also goes a long ways to attracting good prospects and free agents.
Your drivers are your best salesmen, they're the ones who can best recruit drivers for you.
It's much like what the Toronto Blue Jays have to deal with when it comes to signing free agents.
Many players want nothing to do with the Jays because they've heard nothing good about having to deal with customs on a regular basis or how living in Toronto is a different lifestyle than what they could have playing for a U.S. based team. The Jays have to throw more money at prospects to entice them into their organization. Word of mouth from the players already in the organization also goes a long ways to attracting good prospects and free agents.
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Well said Shakey. For every driver that complains about their employer, there are usually 5 that think their job is at least OK and 2 or 3 of those think it is great. If a driver finds himself working for a company that mistreats him, either with poor pay or lack of respect and stays there longer than 3 months, then he needs a reality check. Sure, it can be hard to quit a job when you have a home and a family to support, but eventually you have to move on. If this driver shortage is as serious as some think then shouldn't there be more choices available for a decent driver?
I have a huge respect for any "professional" driver who takes pride in their job. No doubt our industry has turned....its up to management to work hard at accomodating a fair wage for local and highway drivers, thus working close with sales and educate on operating costs and what is real for the business. Every business is different as far as overhead with exception to the "actual" cost of running miles, we all know those costs. So, at the end of the day are you seeking a 1%, 2%, 3% - 20% profit? The new drivers of today who run with two trucks remotely, of course they will undercut an operation that runs with 25 trucks with an actual terminal.
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Drivers
This is a really tough one and will not easily get resolved.
I do not believe that a good driver will not find a good position within 3 months.
By this I mean a driver that knows what his job expectations are.
The problem here is that there are lots of marginal drivers out there that are simply miss enchanted with the job. Their employer knows this but keeps him on because he may find that it is still beneficial to him.
The driver stays there and trods on , but does not really want to better his predicament. He will always look at what the other senior drivers have and want it as well without really deserving it.
Management will not put him on sensitive or long runs , because he has a tendency to mess up. Be it a little fender bender that he thinks is not important, a tardy delivery , or most often the case is he has a very nasty personality that few people want to work with.
The big problem here for most of these drivers is that they were attracted to the job because of the big dollars they saw without a need for an extended education. Mostly this is a second career for them and the job turned out to be a lot more work and extended stays away from home are harder to deal with than expected.
I believe that part of the problem is that the original source of drivers in the past has dwindled in North America. Drivers used to come from rural families that had generation of drivers. These drivers knew what they were getting into.
Many of the new applicants into driving schools are coming from previous employment in other fields where they actually did very little and are now overwhelmed by what they must do to earn a paycheck.
Therefore , once you do have a good driver you better do everything to hang on to them, they are critical to your success.
As for owner operators , the situation my be a little different. Most carriers will have a blend of their own equipment and Owner Ops. With the downturn in the economy ( still waiting for the miraculous upswing in rates) Carriers will favor their own equipment that they are paying for.
The industry will certainly change and probably for the better. A big challenge for drivers is the extended time away from home. The way to attract those that may not find this appealling would be to shift to more regional runs where a cross country load can be partitioned in such a way as to allow several drivers to split the load , allowing drivers weekends home.
This is a really tough one and will not easily get resolved.
I do not believe that a good driver will not find a good position within 3 months.
By this I mean a driver that knows what his job expectations are.
The problem here is that there are lots of marginal drivers out there that are simply miss enchanted with the job. Their employer knows this but keeps him on because he may find that it is still beneficial to him.
The driver stays there and trods on , but does not really want to better his predicament. He will always look at what the other senior drivers have and want it as well without really deserving it.
Management will not put him on sensitive or long runs , because he has a tendency to mess up. Be it a little fender bender that he thinks is not important, a tardy delivery , or most often the case is he has a very nasty personality that few people want to work with.
The big problem here for most of these drivers is that they were attracted to the job because of the big dollars they saw without a need for an extended education. Mostly this is a second career for them and the job turned out to be a lot more work and extended stays away from home are harder to deal with than expected.
I believe that part of the problem is that the original source of drivers in the past has dwindled in North America. Drivers used to come from rural families that had generation of drivers. These drivers knew what they were getting into.
Many of the new applicants into driving schools are coming from previous employment in other fields where they actually did very little and are now overwhelmed by what they must do to earn a paycheck.
Therefore , once you do have a good driver you better do everything to hang on to them, they are critical to your success.
As for owner operators , the situation my be a little different. Most carriers will have a blend of their own equipment and Owner Ops. With the downturn in the economy ( still waiting for the miraculous upswing in rates) Carriers will favor their own equipment that they are paying for.
The industry will certainly change and probably for the better. A big challenge for drivers is the extended time away from home. The way to attract those that may not find this appealling would be to shift to more regional runs where a cross country load can be partitioned in such a way as to allow several drivers to split the load , allowing drivers weekends home.
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this thread may never end lol
well i see some have thot i was an unhappy O/O or driver however im not i have my own equipment run my own athuority have my own customer base and gross around $250.000 a year . i am customer orientened my customers come first . if i have a problem there the first to know .sometimes the truth hurts but its going to come out anyway so its first. ive talked to company drivers over the years started out as an owner operator at kingsway early 90s was a paid tourist as some look at longhaul trucking this way. i been lied to ripped off cheated all learning we all learn every day. ive parked my trucks at times.just because you drive a truck dosent mean your a truck driver.i have expierince in many feilds not just trucking. even had guys take my trucks and go run them with diffrent companys on there own and seen them also do well and then not so well. and bring my trucks back and say just another bad deal .its seeing the other guys that havnt been there and done that and loose .its about guys unable to make truck payments or pay there bills and go bankrupt cause they got lied to . its not about me. put that in your pipe and smoke it
well i see some have thot i was an unhappy O/O or driver however im not i have my own equipment run my own athuority have my own customer base and gross around $250.000 a year . i am customer orientened my customers come first . if i have a problem there the first to know .sometimes the truth hurts but its going to come out anyway so its first. ive talked to company drivers over the years started out as an owner operator at kingsway early 90s was a paid tourist as some look at longhaul trucking this way. i been lied to ripped off cheated all learning we all learn every day. ive parked my trucks at times.just because you drive a truck dosent mean your a truck driver.i have expierince in many feilds not just trucking. even had guys take my trucks and go run them with diffrent companys on there own and seen them also do well and then not so well. and bring my trucks back and say just another bad deal .its seeing the other guys that havnt been there and done that and loose .its about guys unable to make truck payments or pay there bills and go bankrupt cause they got lied to . its not about me. put that in your pipe and smoke it
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It's true heavy hauler, this thread may never end, because it speaks to a critical problem in this industry. As you said, a good truck driver may never make a good O/O because although he has the skills required to make his deliveries on time, take proper care of his equipment, etc., etc., he lacks the business knowledge required to operate a successful venture. The same can be said about painters, mechanics or a host of other trades. Good at what they do, but unable to make the distinction between doing and managing.
Shakey
Site Supporter
30
Heavy Hauler.....same with many other people in many other industries that go broke because someone sold them on a song and dance without details, EASY to make money deals!!! How about all the people that thought they had their retirement locked up and good old Bernie Madoff and several other Ponzi scam artiest blew it all on themselves and now they are working at Wal-Mart as greeters to make ends meet instead of relaxing in their twilight years!!! Due your due diligence no matter what industry your are getting into or job you are applying for, if you don't it is your own fault!
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There is no driver shortage. There is a shortage of drivers willing to work for peanuts however.
Wages have not kept pace with the cost of living. This is mostly because the industry is it's own worst enemy. Cost of operations goes up all the time yet everyone undercuts rates to the point that the biggest asset, the driver, takes the blows. He's the end of the food chain and gets the leftovers after the operating costs, minimum profit is looked after.
A new driver is looking at $5000-$7000 for training to get an AZ license.
Then there is the extras, like TDG, forklift, LCV training that in the long run comes out of the driver's pocket.
Add in FAST, TWIC cards and the lost time a driver spends going for the interviews.
All this for a whopping $16 -$18 hour wage in the KW area. But you can be away from home 16 hours a day. Or go highway, be gone 7 days and get 1 day off.
Wonder why there's a driver shortage?
Wages have not kept pace with the cost of living. This is mostly because the industry is it's own worst enemy. Cost of operations goes up all the time yet everyone undercuts rates to the point that the biggest asset, the driver, takes the blows. He's the end of the food chain and gets the leftovers after the operating costs, minimum profit is looked after.
A new driver is looking at $5000-$7000 for training to get an AZ license.
Then there is the extras, like TDG, forklift, LCV training that in the long run comes out of the driver's pocket.
Add in FAST, TWIC cards and the lost time a driver spends going for the interviews.
All this for a whopping $16 -$18 hour wage in the KW area. But you can be away from home 16 hours a day. Or go highway, be gone 7 days and get 1 day off.
Wonder why there's a driver shortage?
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Buzzy
Or on the other hand , take home after taxes close to $55,000.00 with very little eduction.
That is comparable to what professionals take home after having spent 8 years in college.
It all depends on your perspective. To be able to earn that amount of money you have to be good at what you do. It is no different for a driver.
Let's not get carried away about the training, A forklift course for a week end , a HAZMAT course for a day . a FAST- Twix card and so forth are not a substantial investment in time.
I myself had 7 hours training in a truck and had never seen anything but a 4 speed sincro before passing my CDL on the 1st try after a week of theory. First job 2 weeks later and was scared to downshift a 15 speed from MTl. to Waterloo Ont. Never stopped between here and there. Was a pro on my way back!(at least not shaking)
Driving is not that difficult a job , the hard part in making good money is self control and excellent time management skills. This is what is lacking in most of the drivers that cannot make ends meet.
As one of our collegues mentioned earlier , the step to O/O requires business acumen and that is harder to come by.
Or on the other hand , take home after taxes close to $55,000.00 with very little eduction.
That is comparable to what professionals take home after having spent 8 years in college.
It all depends on your perspective. To be able to earn that amount of money you have to be good at what you do. It is no different for a driver.
Let's not get carried away about the training, A forklift course for a week end , a HAZMAT course for a day . a FAST- Twix card and so forth are not a substantial investment in time.
I myself had 7 hours training in a truck and had never seen anything but a 4 speed sincro before passing my CDL on the 1st try after a week of theory. First job 2 weeks later and was scared to downshift a 15 speed from MTl. to Waterloo Ont. Never stopped between here and there. Was a pro on my way back!(at least not shaking)
Driving is not that difficult a job , the hard part in making good money is self control and excellent time management skills. This is what is lacking in most of the drivers that cannot make ends meet.
As one of our collegues mentioned earlier , the step to O/O requires business acumen and that is harder to come by.
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Re training: the courses are time consuming. That's time a person doesn't get paid for, loses home time over and then does not get compensated for having the certificates.
Re: FAST AND TWIC Cards: again, for the most part, the time to set up the interviews and attend them which is usually on a day off for FAST, Twic could cost an unpaid layover and the expense. $200 for both cards... unrefundable.Plus the downtime for interviews and processing.
Driving isn't a difficult job: Tell that to your drivers trying to make deliveries in -40 weather, throwing tarps, securing loads, fighting traffic in the GTA. If it's not THAT difficult, why are you pushing a pencil?
Or not watching families grow up because the job keeps you away from school concerts, family functions, etc., because the freight "has" to move, the truck has a payment due, or that 100mph dispatcher can't read a 60 mph road map.
Sure the money LOOKS good, but factor in all the downtime away from home and it works out to minimum wage.
Now, I'm no saint, I drove for 38 years, but I got out to push a pencil because it (the job) got increasingly more difficult to justify my total away time against my paycheck, every time new regulations came out.
Don't forget that initial $5000 - $7000 the driver put out of his own pocket to get the license and the 40-60 hours he isn't paid to get that piece of paper.