Intent to claim

D

doxilica

Member
May 15, 2008
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We do have a situation of intent to claim because our driver did not write on the BOL "loaded and counted by shipper" he was not allowed on the dock when they loaded him and not seal provided. Than he had another PU done about 10 minutes away from the first PU and trailer been sealed and marked on BOL received from 2nd PU. So there was two picks and one drop. Seal provided only from the second Pu being the last.These have been delivered to one customer and to find out later that the first one customer has a shortage of so many cases (freight from the first pu). Now they want to come after us saying that the driver is responsible for not counting the cases from the first pick-up. Either they shipped short or the 2nd place took some freight to re-arrange and have forgotten to put them back. It does not make any sense because we are looking here of more than 2-3 cases. We have not received any payment so far...Any good advise on this.

Driver not allowed to be on the loading dock in both places.
 
"Shippers load and count" are the 4 most important words your drivers need to understand. Basically, when your driver signs the bill free and clear you own it.
You are right, either the first pick up place didnt load it or the second stole it. Either way, you have a problem.
You need to make sure your drivers sign the bill of lading properly to cover your $#% or you will have to pay the claim.
Make sure your customer only claims for what they paid for the goods not what they are selling them for.
At least it was only a few cases.
If your customer will not let you sign for the b/l properly (SLC) and wont let you watch it loaded it's time to find a new customer.
Good luck.
 
Shippers Load & Count is only valid if the shipper signs off on that (initals drivers signature and notation) or it is written or stamped on the B/L stating the same. The driver can sign with the notation S.T.C. (Said to Contain or Subject to Count).
 
whatiship said:
"Shippers load and count" are the 4 most important words your drivers need to understand. Basically, when your driver signs the bill free and clear you own it.
You are right, either the first pick up place didnt load it or the second stole it. Either way, you have a problem.
You need to make sure your drivers sign the bill of lading properly to cover your $#% or you will have to pay the claim.
Make sure your customer only claims for what they paid for the goods not what they are selling them for.
At least it was only a few cases.
If your customer will not let you sign for the b/l properly (SLC) and wont let you watch it loaded it's time to find a new customer.
Good luck.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your input.
 
If the bill of lading reflects cartons only - our drivers will note the pickup as "skids" and mark that count on the bill. Drivers are not expected to count cartons - they sign for a skid and that is what gets delivered. Noting the skid count on a bill can be a saving grace if the driver forgot to note SLC or STC and a claim surfaces later...

If your driver could not be present for loading - that is a BIG factor in reviewing a potential claim. It is one of the first questions I ask when starting an investigation. This kind of pickup scenario where a driver is asked to wait in a room or no where near the loading dock to inspect the freight should always result in a SLC/STC notation.

Wait and see if a formal claim is submitted. I would review the bill and see if skids and/or cartons were noted. If they are putting you on the hook for cartons lost - ask them to review their own inventory if possible. I have done this in the past where cartons were concerned -only to find out later they were misplaced in their own warehouse by overshipping an order the day before. People tend to "jump" on missing freight and submitting claims without checking their own end and investigating first. It is always easier to blame someone else rather than taking the time to trace steps...

If the claim amount is nominal and the customer relationship is valuable - request to deduct the amount off future invoices. And if you encounter anymore issues at this shipper - make sure your customer is aware you will not be held liable for any future shipments at that particular location - and note it on the bill.
 
We do not accept SLC or anything else on our outbound bill of ladings the drivers are given the opportunity to count the load - it would absolutely scare you the number of drivers that do not count yet will sign for number of pieces - scary. If any of our drivers are on a dock and are not allowed to count pieces they contact dispatch at that time and we contact whoever gave us the load and inform them of that fact and that we will not be responsible.
 
Funny how when you are proactive there any never any claims...but when one load slips through....suddenly.....missing freight! A good customer will never lie to you, but it is funny how many will let you make a "business decision" if pushed.
 
AccountsReceivable@DRC said:
If the bill of lading reflects cartons only - our drivers will note the pickup as "skids" and mark that count on the bill. Drivers are not expected to count cartons - they sign for a skid and that is what gets delivered. Noting the skid count on a bill can be a saving grace if the driver forgot to note SLC or STC and a claim surfaces later...

If your driver could not be present for loading - that is a BIG factor in reviewing a potential claim. It is one of the first questions I ask when starting an investigation. This kind of pickup scenario where a driver is asked to wait in a room or no where near the loading dock to inspect the freight should always result in a SLC/STC notation.

Wait and see if a formal claim is submitted. I would review the bill and see if skids and/or cartons were noted. If they are putting you on the hook for cartons lost - ask them to review their own inventory if possible. I have done this in the past where cartons were concerned -only to find out later they were misplaced in their own warehouse by overshipping an order the day before. People tend to "jump" on missing freight and submitting claims without checking their own end and investigating first. It is always easier to blame someone else rather than taking the time to trace steps...

If the claim amount is nominal and the customer relationship is valuable - request to deduct the amount off future invoices. And if you encounter anymore issues at this shipper - make sure your customer is aware you will not be held liable for any future shipments at that particular location - and note it on the bill.
Click to expand...

They have been asked to review their inventory but it seems that they are too busy. We have not seen any claim on paper so far still waiting. On the BOL is marked at the bottom total cases and total pallets.
Thanks.
 
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If my drivers are not allowed on the dock to verify skid or carton counts, or to watch the freight being loaded, we accept no responsibility for the shipment. We can only deliver what we are given.

Add to the fact they sealed the truck, they have no recourse against you, in my opinion.

It's along the lines of "your driver took the wrong stuff". I always like that one too.
 
"Your driver took/loaded the wrong stuff", is the classic! I wonder what they use to do that, a knife, a pointed stick or just a threatening stare?
 
doxilica said:
Thanks for your input.
Click to expand...

We have not seen any claim papers for shortage with the amounts on it or what is the amount that they bought it for. Nothing - they just paid us half and are still holding the other amount since December 2009 due to the fact that 73 cases are short. We told them that we will go after the shipper for payment to collect the remaining outstanding balance and if no luck, they would be taken to court for it and see what the judge has to say. In this case the trailer had a seal on it and was marked on BOL very clearly and adding the fact the driver had not been allowed anywhere close to the loading dock. I am tired of these crooks when you think they have a reputable name and I am not worried about payment. Look what they will do to cut you on the rate just like that...crazy...
 
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File in small claims court asap. They are simply wrong and and should be forced to pay.
 
If the customer is claiming right of set-off with your invoice due to shortages rather than electing to file a claim against your insurance, there's little you can do to expedite full payment, unless you sue them.
You can download the claim forms for Small Claims Court, fill them out and send a copy with your final demand for payment, indicating that you get payment in full within 72 hours or the claims get filed and served.

If it were me, this would have happened the day after they indicated that they were short paying. It surprises me that so many who contribute to this wonderful forum, have complaints about broken or vague promises to pay, and how long they wait to get serious about collecting. I may be accused of being hard nosed, but I don't see any advantage in waiting to bring matters to a head. If the customer decides to act unilaterally by short paying without a determination of the value of the loss - it gives you license to do the same, and file those plaintiff's claims forthwith. If they then defend with a counterclaim, then your insurance company is obligated to defend you.

In regard to a shipper that will not permit a driver to observe their truck get loaded - the driver should not sign the bill of lading. If this results in a refused load, then so be it! It will probably create an immediate impasse, but only an imbecile would expect someone to sign a bill of lading without first hand knowledge of what is actually placed on the truck and in what condition. In fact, it's the driver's obligation to have that knowledge. After all, the driver is the "Captain of His Ship!", with all of the rights and obligations that go along with it, particularly when crossing the Border. I can well imagine how frustrated some shippers would be when confronted with this situation, however I don't believe that any reasonably intelligent person could fault the driver or you for insisting on this. If the shipper cites "insurance issues" with you driver not being on the dock, then the shipper is remiss for not accommodating the driver's observance from a protected, and safe area, and have their competence brought into question.
 
Just to add to your comments ActiveT....it is also an ISO requirement for a driver to be abe to witness the loading of his trailer to be abe to sign the BOL....I had to make a call some years ago regarding this situation...shipper's policy was "no drivers on the dock"..went to the call and explained that the driver MUST view to sign....no problems after that.
 
Activet said:
If the customer is claiming right of set-off with your invoice due to shortages rather than electing to file a claim against your insurance, there's little you can do to expedite full payment, unless you sue them.
You can download the claim forms for Small Claims Court, fill them out and send a copy with your final demand for payment, indicating that you get payment in full within 72 hours or the claims get filed and served.

If it were me, this would have happened the day after they indicated that they were short paying. It surprises me that so many who contribute to this wonderful forum, have complaints about broken or vague promises to pay, and how long they wait to get serious about collecting. I may be accused of being hard nosed, but I don't see any advantage in waiting to bring matters to a head. If the customer decides to act unilaterally by short paying without a determination of the value of the loss - it gives you license to do the same, and file those plaintiff's claims forthwith. If they then defend with a counterclaim, then your insurance company is obligated to defend you.

In regard to a shipper that will not permit a driver to observe their truck get loaded - the driver should not sign the bill of lading. If this results in a refused load, then so be it! It will probably create an immediate impasse, but only an imbecile would expect someone to sign a bill of lading without first hand knowledge of what is actually placed on the truck and in what condition. In fact, it's the driver's obligation to have that knowledge. After all, the driver is the "Captain of His Ship!", with all of the rights and obligations that go along with it, particularly when crossing the Border. I can well imagine how frustrated some shippers would be when confronted with this situation, however I don't believe that any reasonably intelligent person could fault the driver or you for insisting on this. If the shipper cites "insurance issues" with you driver not being on the dock, then the shipper is remiss for not accommodating the driver's observance from a protected, and safe area, and have their competence brought into question.
Click to expand...

I agreed with you as waiting to bring matters to a head it does not help at all, we thought that we both parties will come to an conclusion sorting things out like having the shipper doing the inventory to make sure that actually those cases have been shipped at all or they were just misplaced somewhere in the warehouse. After all these phone calls back and forth it is just us being at fault for not writing SLC, even they told me that the guy who loaded the truck said that the driver actually has been allowed on the dock which was not the case. So they change their story as the wind blows. This will go to a small claim court, hate to see how people take advantage of it and having you working for free. Just a waiste of time and money with these guys.
That is why I am all for prepaid service like most of the services you will probably get avoiding all these unnecessary claims and potential issues where not even the case is.
Having this case happened in December last year we are very careful what we write on BOL and I have encountered a case where shipper "Maple Leafs" crossed over the SLC saying that they do not want that written on the BOL and they are responsible for whatever they shipped. My driver explained to him what happened and that he is not taking any responsibilities if any issues would arise after this shipment would be delivered short or whatever the case would be....and they said they are OK with that....so you figure....Anyhow we will see where we will end up with this matter now.
 
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The BOL is not the only evidence

While the BOL is an important piece of evidence in a claim it is not the only evidence and if the balance of other evidence out weighs the BOL then it is meaningless. It's not just about the BOL. Present other evidence.

Was the shipment shrink wrapped? If so, was the shrink wrap cut open when the product was recieved or not? This would be evidence of tampering during transit. If the skid arrived intact, it doesn't matter what the BOL says about case count.

No judge would reasonably expect a truck driver to count every box on every skid. It's impossible. The trucking industry would grind to a halt if every driver had to count every box.

You've asked the customer to present evidence that their inventory is short. The have refused to do so. You have asserted that you disagree with the count because the driver could not be present during loading. The ball is in their court to show that an actual loss occured. I would present it that way.

At the end of the day though, it sounds like the customer is just ignorant. What's right or wrong in law isn't going to help you. You've got a difficult decision, either pay or take a hard line and say no. Then sue them in small claims for the unpaid freight bill.
 
Pablo said:
While the BOL is an important piece of evidence in a claim it is not the only evidence and if the balance of other evidence out weighs the BOL then it is meaningless. It's not just about the BOL. Present other evidence.

Was the shipment shrink wrapped? If so, was the shrink wrap cut open when the product was recieved or not? This would be evidence of tampering during transit. If the skid arrived intact, it doesn't matter what the BOL says about case count.

No judge would reasonably expect a truck driver to count every box on every skid. It's impossible. The trucking industry would grind to a halt if every driver had to count every box.

You've asked the customer to present evidence that their inventory is short. The have refused to do so. You have asserted that you disagree with the count because the driver could not be present during loading. The ball is in their court to show that an actual loss occured. I would present it that way.

At the end of the day though, it sounds like the customer is just ignorant. What's right or wrong in law isn't going to help you. You've got a difficult decision, either pay or take a hard line and say no. Then sue them in small claims for the unpaid freight bill.
Click to expand...

Pablo the skids arrived intact they were not shrink wrapped to say this would be an evidence of tampering during transit. Whatever been shipped this is what they received with trailer sealed. We will sue them - this ignorance has got to stop.
 
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Signature on the bill of lading

Many years ago,,,, I did a regular run from Montreal to Texas and often picked up peanuts for Kraft in Montreal. Back in those days the bags were floor loaded by teams of men.
These places were notorious for using any excuse in the book to not load you when they were behind.
On one occasion I had to pick up at Abilene cold storage in Texas, I got there early in the morning, signed in, and did not get loaded. The whs management told me to come in for 6 the next morning. I laid over and was there at 6:00.
Close to 20 trucks got there behind me and were loded before me. By 2:00pm , near their cut off time, they started to load me and 1 hour later they were done ( usual loading time 2hrs)
As usual they would not let me on the dock to oversee the loading. I was curteous the whole time but pissed as hell.
Fortunatly I had a document from Kraft stating that I was not to load any torn bags.
Now the manager was in a hurry to go home and wanted me to sign the bill of lading. I told him I had to look for any torn bags prior to signing off on the B/L. He said that that was not any of his business and I was to leave. I pulled out my loading instructions and showed him.
We were now at an impasse.
Naturally he would not allow me to use the dock so I pulled forward and went in to inspect, I asked him to send one of his employees in with me. I looked for bags at the bottom and as far in front as I could. I counted 8 torn bags, the laborer confirmed the tears. I advised the manager that I wanted those bags removed or replaced. He refused and said that he would seal the trailer. I said that was not an issue.
I explained to the now hopping little redneck, that he was not my customer and that I would either sign the B/L with the bags as torn and short or not sign at all.
We were now at a big impasse.
The manager was going to send his staff home, I suggested he hang on because he may have to unload the trailer.
A few hours went by with me waiting patiently, while the manager called his bosses and my boss.
I clearly remember my boss asking me not to start a war, and I replied that I was ending it.
After I had not budged and management saw that I was stern, they threatened to call the police. I suggested that he do so, as that was my next step.
When the police arrived, I proceeded to take down their identification and badge numbers, I explained to them that I was being sequestered by the staff of the warehouse. I further stressed to the two officers that the manager , willingly wanted me to falsify the bill of lading, a federally regulated document, or he would not let me go.
I also added that I was thinking of pressing charges.
The police officers knew they had a problem.

The officers saw that I was very calm in their presence. They naturally went through all pertinent documentation and while going through my wallet, found my McGill University ID card, the officer inquired what it was for and I mentionned I was studying LAW.

The two officers confered and split us up. The senior officer asked me what I wanted to do, since it was nearing 10:00pm. I did a quick calculation, 6 guys @ 7 hours equalled about the time I had lost. So if I could sign the bill of lading as I wished indicating the shortfall, I would be on my way.
I believe the other officer explained to the warehouse manager the implications of a charge sequestration would have on him.
In the end I signed and was merily on my way.

No need to say, there was never another driver from our company delayed at that warehouse.

That is the power of a bill of lading, make sure you use it properly.
 
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