Register your business in NS, have most of your "assets" in Brampton, operate from a cellphone with a NB number and live in AB.
No police force is getting involved in that.
State of the Union 2020-21
- Thread starter TRKINSURE
- Start date
Register your business in NS, have most of your "assets" in Brampton, operate from a cellphone with a NB number and live in AB.
No police force is getting involved in that.
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It's the typical Canadian way everyone is entitled to insurance no matter how bad of record they have. The problem is the Facility provider did or does not work like a normal insurance company and did not properly vet it's clients and took their word verbatim. These people should not be allowed to own companies and yet the Canadian way is to let them drive down the road and endanger all of us.
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I know of a company that did 100 for about 460 for a short period of time.
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don't understand - we have to submit Cab cards for every truck on the insurance...so how does that even fly with the insurer???
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All it takes is a crooked insurance broker. The Facility Insurance staff are very likely undermanned and overwhelmed. They simply did not, and do not, check anything, and take the broker's word for what is true and correct.
Real insurance companies are finally involved and making the Facility Insurance proposition better from our standpoint, worse from the standpoint of those that have to use it.
Real insurance companies are finally involved and making the Facility Insurance proposition better from our standpoint, worse from the standpoint of those that have to use it.
One of the teachers I had at Humber was a full-time Insurance Broker. He owned his own company, super knowledgeable and took the entire 3 hours class going over the insurance industry.
One of the things he touched on is in Canada, everyone is legally entitled to insurance and if they ask for a quote, he is legally obligated to provide a quote. If the customer accepts the quote, he is also obligated to find insurance for the quoted rate.
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Not necessarily astronomical prices, but very likely higher than the retail market. Price is dependant on driving/safety record.
Because the government legislated that everyone must have insurance to license a vehicle to drive on a public road, then everyone must have access to an insurance policy. Since the government cannot legislate that a private company must take on undue risk, the Facility Insurance Policy (FIP) was born. Even though the FIP is backed by the fiduciary concerns of private sector insurance companies, it is administered by the government and therefore protected from lawsuits, which is the very reason private insurance companies would not take on undue risk in the first place.
The premise of the FIP is this ... you have an excellent driving record and I have an exceptionally poor driving record. You and I both go to the private sector for insurance, and under the law the private sector must provide us both a quote. You get a quote for $5,000.00 and I get a quote for $60,000.00, annually. Either of us can go to the FIP where you get a quote for $7,000.00 and I get a quote for $20,000.00, annually. Your increased rate is helping to fund my decrease rate. Clearly you are going with the private sector, and I am going with the FIP.
Besides price, there are huge policy differences. Your policy with the private sector covers everything under the sun. My policy with FIP only covers me driving my vehicle, and only for PL & PD. I am not even sure that the FIP even covers accident benefits, even though they are legislated ... someone will have to fact check me on that.
It's up to the buyer to determine if the cost of insurance versus the convenience of driving is worth it.
Throw lying, cheating, and stealing by unscrupulous brokers and their clients into the mix and you have the perfect recipe for insurance disaster. I would expect the potential unfunded liability would stretch into the billions of dollars. Were the private insurance companies to be held to that unfunded liability, after what would be epic lawsuits of unfathomable time and expense, I would have every expectation that private insurance policies would simply withdraw from the Canadian market altogether.
Thankfully the government now appears to have seen the errors of their ways, and have decided to adopt the best practices of the private sector insurance companies.
Remember ... Everyone is entitled to an insurance policy. No one is entitled to a cheap insurance policy ... you have to earn that.
Because the government legislated that everyone must have insurance to license a vehicle to drive on a public road, then everyone must have access to an insurance policy. Since the government cannot legislate that a private company must take on undue risk, the Facility Insurance Policy (FIP) was born. Even though the FIP is backed by the fiduciary concerns of private sector insurance companies, it is administered by the government and therefore protected from lawsuits, which is the very reason private insurance companies would not take on undue risk in the first place.
The premise of the FIP is this ... you have an excellent driving record and I have an exceptionally poor driving record. You and I both go to the private sector for insurance, and under the law the private sector must provide us both a quote. You get a quote for $5,000.00 and I get a quote for $60,000.00, annually. Either of us can go to the FIP where you get a quote for $7,000.00 and I get a quote for $20,000.00, annually. Your increased rate is helping to fund my decrease rate. Clearly you are going with the private sector, and I am going with the FIP.
Besides price, there are huge policy differences. Your policy with the private sector covers everything under the sun. My policy with FIP only covers me driving my vehicle, and only for PL & PD. I am not even sure that the FIP even covers accident benefits, even though they are legislated ... someone will have to fact check me on that.
It's up to the buyer to determine if the cost of insurance versus the convenience of driving is worth it.
Throw lying, cheating, and stealing by unscrupulous brokers and their clients into the mix and you have the perfect recipe for insurance disaster. I would expect the potential unfunded liability would stretch into the billions of dollars. Were the private insurance companies to be held to that unfunded liability, after what would be epic lawsuits of unfathomable time and expense, I would have every expectation that private insurance policies would simply withdraw from the Canadian market altogether.
Thankfully the government now appears to have seen the errors of their ways, and have decided to adopt the best practices of the private sector insurance companies.
Remember ... Everyone is entitled to an insurance policy. No one is entitled to a cheap insurance policy ... you have to earn that.
They don't fall for this scheme-they are forced into this. Because insurance is mandated by law there has to be someone who offers it to those who cannot get it from a conventional method. The insurance companies have created something called 'Facility' where each of them contribute to the fund and those who are un-insurable can make an application to Facility. It is supposed to be way more expensive but as you can see with @Michael Ludwig post they obtain permission for 10 under false pretenses and run 100 trucks. If Facility does not insure them they complain to the government. What is needed is a Czar, ombudsman or a mediator for both Facility and Carrier to make their case to and it be decided upon fairly.
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They had... in the past. They are taking a HARD stance on the trucking carriers and if you’re declined you likely won’t be looked at for a LONG time! They are identifying “chameleon” carriers now and staying away from those individuals. That’s why many of you are now being asked for Articles of Incorporation.
They also use CAB reports which pulls US DOT info on trucks, drivers and contact info to help identify those chameleons.
Some insurers still continue to do business with the brokers who are knowingly misleading them... I say an investigation into those people (underwriters) are necessary too... but those are far and few in between.
I don’t believe you can have a Facility Association contract cancelled in Ontario due to the “all comers” rule. But at least Facility is asking the correct questions now to eliminate fraudsters... until the next scheme.
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Which will probably be buying up small 2-5 truck carriers simply for their safety records, and insurance leverage. Add 100 trucks to that fleet overnight, and run it into the ground until the safety record is defunct.
There's lots of offshore money that comes into the trucking industry. It's a good place to do laundry
There's lots of offshore money that comes into the trucking industry. It's a good place to do laundry
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no wonder so any trucks get caught bringing in banned items....wonder how many get awayWhich will probably be buying up small 2-5 truck carriers simply for their safety records, and insurance leverage. Add 100 trucks to that fleet overnight, and run it into the ground until the safety record is defunct.
There's lots of offshore money that comes into the trucking industry. It's a good place to do laundry
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Hi Truckinsure, any chance you care to update this post 5 years later? It could certainly benefit the membership here. Presuming you have the time to do so. thank you for your infinite wisdom.
Keep well,
Mike
I have thought about this for a while. A lot has changed since i last posted one of these, you’re right. Give me a couple weeks and I’ll write another..
Stay tuned!
And please, if you have this information, give us the equivalent US side equivalent of the Canadian insurer. It would be nice to know what we see on FMCSA website lines up to your Canadian list.
Who is this Canadian Insurer?
Whats the policy #? There are a couple of insurers that use this 'filing company' to issue their filings on their behalf. Without the POL# it's impossible to tell. (see my other post about LOE's - hopefully I can answer future questions there.
It was just a quick snippit. I'd like to know if I can determine the insurer off the FMCSA filings. Maybe you have policy number patterns for specific insurers? The reason why I'm looking is to try to identify who is using facility. One aspect of the sales pitch is to ask freight owners if they get certificates for carriers/brokers. If they say yes, I will ask if their carriers are using facility.