P&D Freightlines

[Ark55]

Booked an LTL from IN to ON for $450. There was an issue with customs, so lay over was promised. Carrier wanted $300, saying they had a team and moved it exclusively, and the customer only approved $150, but we still paid an extra $50. Carrier called and said We want COD. We also agreed to give a cheque upon delivery receipt. When emailed regarding delivery, they want email money transfer, and we keep our books clean for CRA, so no EMT. We offered EFT and cheque that can be picked up from our office, but the carrier insisted on getting paid in advance. Now they are holding the load hostage till they get paid before delivery.

 

[JACKBURTON]

Booked an LTL from IN to ON for $450. There was an issue with customs, so lay over was promised. Carrier wanted $300, saying they had a team and moved it exclusively, and the customer only approved $150, but we still paid an extra $50. Carrier called and said We want COD. We also agreed to give a cheque upon delivery receipt. When emailed regarding delivery, they want email money transfer, and we keep our books clean for CRA, so no EMT. We offered EFT and cheque that can be picked up from our office, but the carrier insisted on getting paid in advance. Now they are holding the load hostage till they get paid before delivery.

Nothing to do with P&D, I just have a question to brokers about layovers. Why does the customer get to dictate what charges get approved for the carrier?
I can't imagine a plumber coming to my house, fixing my pipe and saying okay this costs X and me getting to say "well i only approve y". It's such a strange way to do things. (also it's incredibly not okay that the carrier is the one that ends up eating shit, every single time)

 

[Rob]

Nothing to do with P&D, I just have a question to brokers about layovers. Why does the customer get to dictate what charges get approved for the carrier?
I can't imagine a plumber coming to my house, fixing my pipe and saying okay this costs X and me getting to say "well i only approve y". It's such a strange way to do things. (also it's incredibly not okay that the carrier is the one that ends up eating shit, every single time)

And my guess that is why P&D is saying f you pay me now or by tomorrow your customer will change their mind and now extra charges, Seen it happen, No condoning what P&D is doing but I can understand why they are as far too many brokers hide behind the old getting it approved BS. Should be no question as to the charge, Not a carriers fault for ppwk issue but we are supposed too help out the broker and client by eating time and money. Not likely unless we do a pile of business together,

 

[Ark55]

And my guess that is why P&D is saying f you pay me now or by tomorrow your customer will change their mind and now extra charges, Seen it happen, No condoning what P&D is doing but I can understand why they are as far too many brokers hide behind the old getting it approved BS. Should be no question as to the charge, Not a carriers fault for ppwk issue but we are supposed too help out the broker and client by eating time and money. Not likely unless we do a pile of business together,

I agree, not the carrier's fault, and that is why I already sent him a revised load tender and additionally offered him to come collect his payment from my office while his driver is getting offloaded. If a carrier has so many trust issues, then why bother booking the load, or why even do the trade references?

I also understand that a lot of carriers double broker and end up not paying, and then shut down the company, or even the broker says they are waiting for approval, and then deny, and it is very unfair.

 

[Fr8Guru]

Nothing to do with P&D, I just have a question to brokers about layovers. Why does the customer get to dictate what charges get approved for the carrier?
I can't imagine a plumber coming to my house, fixing my pipe and saying okay this costs X and me getting to say "well i only approve y". It's such a strange way to do things. (also it's incredibly not okay that the carrier is the one that ends up eating shit, every single time)

You haul loads for me so we'll use a legit customer as an example.

We signed a contract with that TX shipper. Their contract to do business with them -
No redlines
$150 layover
$150 tonu.
$50 bucks an hour after 3 hrs for detention.

I sign that because frankly, as does any broker/carrier, we want the business. They give us loads and when these accessorial's do come up, this is what I get paid. No more no less.

Now will I approve a higher amount and eat it in certain circumstances? Absolutely. But not every broker will do that.

When we set up/update carriers, as you know, you've filed out our "revised" contract out like 231931 times since 2024, we outline our terms for detention/tonu/layover. Which are all the industry standard crap.

TLDR; its all based on contract nonsense.

 

[Ark55]

You haul loads for me so we'll use a legit customer as an example.

We signed a contract with that TX shipper. Their contract to do business with them -
No redlines
$150 layover
$150 tonu.
$50 bucks an hour after 3 hrs for detention.

I sign that because frankly, as does any broker/carrier, we want the business. They give us loads and when these accessorial's do come up, this is what I get paid. No more no less.

Now will I approve a higher amount and eat it in certain circumstances? Absolutely. But not every broker will do that.

When we set up/update carriers, as you know, you've filed out our "revised" contract out like 231931 times since 2024, we outline our terms for detention/tonu/layover. Which are all the industry standard crap.

TLDR; its all based on contract nonsense.

NO CAP!!

 

[JACKBURTON]

You haul loads for me so we'll use a legit customer as an example.

We signed a contract with that TX shipper. Their contract to do business with them -
No redlines
$150 layover
$150 tonu.
$50 bucks an hour after 3 hrs for detention.

I sign that because frankly, as does any broker/carrier, we want the business. They give us loads and when these accessorial's do come up, this is what I get paid. No more no less.

Now will I approve a higher amount and eat it in certain circumstances? Absolutely. But not every broker will do that.

When we set up/update carriers, as you know, you've filed out our "revised" contract out like 231931 times since 2024, we outline our terms for detention/tonu/layover. Which are all the industry standard crap.

TLDR; its all based on contract nonsense.

Makes sense. It does get frustrating when brokers still want to haggle over these set rates. Also once any of these take place a lot of brokers lose any sense of urgency to resolve the issue. We're already into this for $150 so why rush things along? (You guys aren't like this at all BTW).
Also the "your driver was 9 minutes late to appointment so we aren't paying any detention" game.

 

[JACKBURTON]

If a carrier has so many trust issues, then why bother booking the load, or why even do the trade references?

Also this.. as I carrier, I seem to be the one to have to jump through the hoops. Insurance with the brokers name on it, sent directly from my provider. Provide VIN #'s (sometimes for the truck picking up, sometimes for my whole fleet), pictures, references, tracking links, tracking updates, drivers license photos, pictures of the load, driver's phone numbers. Sometimes i've had brokers hijack the whole dispatching portion of the load, and they call my drivers non-stop.

Then we're the ones that will be out money when someone along the line decides they don't want to pay.

 

[Ark55]

Also this.. as I carrier, I seem to be the one to have to jump through the hoops. Insurance with the brokers name on it, sent directly from my provider. Provide VIN #'s (sometimes for the truck picking up, sometimes for my whole fleet), pictures, references, tracking links, tracking updates, drivers license photos, pictures of the load, driver's phone numbers. Sometimes i've had brokers hijack the whole dispatching portion of the load, and they call my drivers non-stop.

Then we're the ones that will be out money when someone along the line decides they don't want to pay.

I agree with this, too! Happened with our asset team a couple of times, and since then, we tell the brokers that you get the tracking link and our personal numbers, but not the driver's number, unless you send me in writing that you are liable for any accidents caused because you keep calling my driver for updates.

Some brokers do go beyond, and that I think is very unnecessary.

 

[theman]

I actually am on P&D's side on this one. Even $150 doesn't cover the opportunity cost.

 

[Jim L]

I find it real frustrating too that somehow, someone has come up with the rate that they feel is acceptable. Since when does a layover for a carrier equate to $150? Is that for 24 hours or is that for 12 hours?
Let's face it, every situation needs to be evaluated. If the broker had told me ahead of time, at booking, that I'd have to layover I might consider 150 or maybe less, but if the broker doesn't know their customer or lied to pickup on Tuesday when the appointment was Wednesday at 1pm then $150 doesn't cut it. If you hold the driver for 8 hours at pickup that is way different than if it took 2.5 hours to load. If you tell me the load is going in bond at time of booking the cost will be lower than if I have to spend 7 hours managing some broker's customer's customs broker only to find that they didn't pay their CARM and all the ACI work that was done now has to be redone after hours, then the cost goes up. We are not in the business of paying for costs and receipts and hoping for reimbursement.

Brokers need to push these costs down to the person creating the costs, ie the customer. If the broker cannot do that then they need to eat the cost for having such a great customer that it's worth it.

I'm tired of hearing, 'Oh that has never happened before, and we ship this 3X per week'. To that I call BS.

I don't condone what P&D has done but the industry has set it up that is what needs to happen to CYA and will happen more and more. Too many times, we have agreed to a price for accessorial costs over the phone, but the broker will not honour it. We even get an updated Load confirmation but they short pay the bill stating that their amazing customer who ships 3X per week would not approve it. Carriers are being backed into a corner and one day it will turn around. When that happens, I have a long list of brokers who has made my s*&t list.

 

[JACKBURTON]

I find it real frustrating too that somehow, someone has come up with the rate that they feel is acceptable. Since when does a layover for a carrier equate to $150? Is that for 24 hours or is that for 12 hours?
Let's face it, every situation needs to be evaluated. If the broker had told me ahead of time, at booking, that I'd have to layover I might consider 150 or maybe less, but if the broker doesn't know their customer or lied to pickup on Tuesday when the appointment was Wednesday at 1pm then $150 doesn't cut it. If you hold the driver for 8 hours at pickup that is way different than if it took 2.5 hours to load. If you tell me the load is going in bond at time of booking the cost will be lower than if I have to spend 7 hours managing some broker's customer's customs broker only to find that they didn't pay their CARM and all the ACI work that was done now has to be redone after hours, then the cost goes up. We are not in the business of paying for costs and receipts and hoping for reimbursement.

Brokers need to push these costs down to the person creating the costs, ie the customer. If the broker cannot do that then they need to eat the cost for having such a great customer that it's worth it.

I'm tired of hearing, 'Oh that has never happened before, and we ship this 3X per week'. To that I call BS.

I don't condone what P&D has done but the industry has set it up that is what needs to happen to CYA and will happen more and more. Too many times, we have agreed to a price for accessorial costs over the phone, but the broker will not honour it. We even get an updated Load confirmation but they short pay the bill stating that their amazing customer who ships 3X per week would not approve it. Carriers are being backed into a corner and one day it will turn around. When that happens, I have a long list of brokers who has made my s*&t list.

I love you Jim <3

 

[MikeJr]

1000% communication is key. From the beneficial owner of the goods to the broker and from the broker to carrier. The more information that is shared, the SMOOTHER the shipment goes. It's not rocket science.

Sadly, when employees are poorly trained, they don't ask the right questions or don't share information that is relevant to the next party in the chain.

We all have felt your frustration Jim. Here's hoping people can learn from their mistakes and gather more data to pass on to someone you are relying on to perform the move.

Happy Friday,
Mike

 

[Ark55]

I find it real frustrating too that somehow, someone has come up with the rate that they feel is acceptable. Since when does a layover for a carrier equate to $150? Is that for 24 hours or is that for 12 hours?
Let's face it, every situation needs to be evaluated. If the broker had told me ahead of time, at booking, that I'd have to layover I might consider 150 or maybe less, but if the broker doesn't know their customer or lied to pickup on Tuesday when the appointment was Wednesday at 1pm then $150 doesn't cut it. If you hold the driver for 8 hours at pickup that is way different than if it took 2.5 hours to load. If you tell me the load is going in bond at time of booking the cost will be lower than if I have to spend 7 hours managing some broker's customer's customs broker only to find that they didn't pay their CARM and all the ACI work that was done now has to be redone after hours, then the cost goes up. We are not in the business of paying for costs and receipts and hoping for reimbursement.

Brokers need to push these costs down to the person creating the costs, ie the customer. If the broker cannot do that then they need to eat the cost for having such a great customer that it's worth it.

I'm tired of hearing, 'Oh that has never happened before, and we ship this 3X per week'. To that I call BS.

I don't condone what P&D has done but the industry has set it up that is what needs to happen to CYA and will happen more and more. Too many times, we have agreed to a price for accessorial costs over the phone, but the broker will not honour it. We even get an updated Load confirmation but they short pay the bill stating that their amazing customer who ships 3X per week would not approve it. Carriers are being backed into a corner and one day it will turn around. When that happens, I have a long list of brokers who has made my s*&t list.

It is not about the layover charges or how much is being paid. It is about a carrier holding freight to get paid first through email money transfer, even though he was given an EFT option or a pick up cheque from office.

 

[Freight Broker]

For the small amount of money involved here, I would suggest that this is not the hill you want to die on. Pay what they're asking (which doesn’t sound unreasonable) and you decide whether or not you want to pass that on to the customer. About electronic payment up front.. again..it’s a small amount.. if it gets your shipment moving and keeps your customer happy then just do it.

 

[JACKBURTON]

It is not about the layover charges or how much is being paid. It is about a carrier holding freight to get paid first through email money transfer, even though he was given an EFT option or a pick up cheque from office.

Maybe they don't like easily reversed EFT's, or cheques that hey, lets be real, can be written even when there's no money in the account. Easy way to buy another two weeks of non payment.
Not saying your company is like that at all, but I bet these guys have been burned a few too many times in the past. Which is kind of their fault, but that's irrelevant. E transfer puts the money right there.

 

[Fr8Guru]

Maybe they don't like easily reversed EFT's, or cheques that hey, lets be real, can be written even when there's no money in the account. Easy way to buy another two weeks of non payment.
Not saying your company is like that at all, but I bet these guys have been burned a few too many times in the past. Which is kind of their fault, but that's irrelevant. E transfer puts the money right there.

Gotta agree with this.

We were recently burned on a credit card payment, $500 bucks for some local move. Guy said he'd pay upfront via card.

We request copies of photo ID, picture of the physical card etc. when we do this. Everything looks good and goes through, short little 10 mile move.

By the time the truck is empty, the charge was reversed due to "fraud"

What a time to be in the industry. We'll likely get our $500 after a 3 month fight with the credit card company...

 

[Freight Broker]

Yes, and these smaller amounts are hardest to collect if the customer decides to not pay.

 

[Ark55]

For the small amount of money involved here, I would suggest that this is not the hill you want to die on. Pay what they're asking (which doesn’t sound unreasonable) and you decide whether or not you want to pass that on to the customer. About electronic payment up front.. again..it’s a small amount.. if it gets your shipment moving and keeps your customer happy then just do it.

Yeah, and that is what I ended up doing. My only concern was to make sure my customer gets their shipment. No offence, but a lot of Brampton/ Mississauga carriers are not trustworthy. I do use some, and I trust them, and the rest are just the worst.

 

[Shakey]

Yeah, and that is what I ended up doing. My only concern was to make sure my customer gets their shipment. No offence, but a lot of Brampton carriers are not trustworthy. I do use some, and I trust them, and the rest are just the worst.

They are in Mississauga….