Cummins Engine Warranty - Dust Intrusion into Engine

jonny-chicken

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Jun 24, 2009
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Good Morning All,

Just looking for anyone else's past experiences and any advice or words of wisdom when dealing with Cummins Engine Warranties.

Over the years, of course, we have had many minor issues with engines and have been able to get warranty coverage many times.

However, we have just run into a problem with a truck that is still under warranty and although we don't have a definitive answer back from Cummins yet, the dealer seems to be lowering our expectations and preparing us for some bad news...

Truck went into the dealer for a service and to address an engine light, but from the driver's perspective the truck was running just fine and he had no issues.

After replacing a sensor (under warranty) the dealer asked us to approve 4 hours of labour to look further into the issue because the sensor did not resolve the issue. We approved it and they said they found the problem which would require 8 hours (plus parts) to fix and would not be covered under warranty as it was a wiring issue and the wiring warranty had expired. We told them to go ahead with the repairs.

After this, they told us that the problem was still not resolved and now they believe that there has been dust intrusion into the engine due to dust somehow making it's way past the filtration system. They asked us to approve 10 hours of labour to 'troubleshoot' and document the issue after which they would present their findings to Cummins and seek warranty coverage, but they were very clear in saying that these types of claims are 'almost always denied' once they present evidence of dust in the engine.

With those odds, we decided we should not proceed with this 'troubleshooting' and instead have told the dealer to get a ruling from Cummins before we proceed any further.

They are telling us that to remedy this issue the engine will need an overhaul at an approximate cost of $60,000 ... :eek:

Does anyone else out there have any experience with dust intrusion into an engine and/or with getting engine warranty coverage on major repairs?
 
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Would you consider a second opinion from someone else? I have found that the knowledge base from one dealer to another, or even one mechanic to another varies greatly. Even if you don't physically take the truck somewhere else, finding a mechanic that knows that specific engine well is worth his/her weight in gold. Just a thought...
 
Would you consider a second opinion from someone else? I have found that the knowledge base from one dealer to another, or even one mechanic to another varies greatly. Even if you don't physically take the truck somewhere else, finding a mechanic that knows that specific engine well is worth his/her weight in gold. Just a thought...
Thanks @Chica

Someone else has also suggested this route. I'll see if one of the other shops we deal with can give us an opinion.
 
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Not sure if you’ve got a Cummins service center near you, but I’d definitely check them out. Kenworth or Peterbilt can be a pain in the ass when it comes to warranty stuff on Cummins or CAT. they always seem to have their own take on the diagnosis. We had an issue with a cracked head on an X15, and Peterbilt said we were SOL, but Cummins ended up covering it under warranty.
 
Not sure if you’ve got a Cummins service center near you, but I’d definitely check them out. Kenworth or Peterbilt can be a pain in the ass when it comes to warranty stuff on Cummins or CAT. they always seem to have their own take on the diagnosis. We had an issue with a cracked head on an X15, and Peterbilt said we were SOL, but Cummins ended up covering it under warranty.
The way the Cummins all seem to go boom at 600k I would think Cummins just expects it to be warranty. Never had one of these new ones but be hard pressed to find one on tader etc with over a million km's 600k miles and not have a rebuild or complete new engine. Things must be junk. Good luck a 60k hit is an ouch hope they fix it for you.
 
The way the Cummins all seem to go boom at 600k I would think Cummins just expects it to be warranty. Never had one of these new ones but be hard pressed to find one on tader etc with over a million km's 600k miles and not have a rebuild or complete new engine. Things must be junk. Good luck a 60k hit is an ouch hope they fix it for you.

Honestly we have had good luck with the X15 Cummins so far, but i do think its better to go with the house motor the mfg has to offer (except international). The big 3 are spending a lot of time and resources on these motors and honestly, they will all outlive a Cummins any day.
 
The problem right now is the truck is worth nothing at Ritchie Bros. The market is in the dumpster for used trucks. Might be an option but only if you study the recent price comparisons and be prepared. You could be setting yourself up for a huge loss and if the truck is new enough to be under warranty, it might not even be paid for yet...
 
Not sure if you’ve got a Cummins service center near you, but I’d definitely check them out. Kenworth or Peterbilt can be a pain in the ass when it comes to warranty stuff on Cummins or CAT. they always seem to have their own take on the diagnosis. We had an issue with a cracked head on an X15, and Peterbilt said we were SOL, but Cummins ended up covering it under warranty.
That's very interesting... I'll have to look into that... Because yes, we've just been going through the dealer, in this case a Kenworth Dealer... But all of our trucks have Cummins engines and they are of various makes like Kenworth, Peterbilt, Western Star, International...
 
The way the Cummins all seem to go boom at 600k I would think Cummins just expects it to be warranty. Never had one of these new ones but be hard pressed to find one on tader etc with over a million km's 600k miles and not have a rebuild or complete new engine. Things must be junk. Good luck a 60k hit is an ouch hope they fix it for you.
Well, this particular truck didn't even make it that far... It's got less than 500,000 Miles on it...

We have had several dozen other trucks though with these engines and never had such major issues... Of course, we did sell them all at around the 600,000 mile mark, so.... haahahahaaa... Perhaps we've been getting lucky...
 
Take it to Ritchie Bros and flog it. Dust getting into the engine is their problem and not preventable by you.
Indeed, that is our perspective... We have maintained these vehicles according to manufacturer's specs and at Cummins approved shops... If this engine is toast, it's on Cummins, not us...
 
The problem right now is the truck is worth nothing at Ritchie Bros. The market is in the dumpster for used trucks. Might be an option but only if you study the recent price comparisons and be prepared. You could be setting yourself up for a huge loss and if the truck is new enough to be under warranty, it might not even be paid for yet...

Correct on both comments...

We recently took a couple older trucks to Ritchie Bros and although there was nothing wrong with them but their age and high mileage, we took a bath on them, getting far less than we considered they were worth...

And yes indeed... We are still making payments on this particular truck unfortunately...
 
Take it to Cummins in Buffalo,top notch people. Sorry to say I;ve never had any luck with the local KW dealer's service dept. Best of luck
 
So... This is weird, but at least it's an "All's well that ends well" kind of story... haahahahaaa...

We ended up authorizing them to spend a bit of time troubleshooting/documenting the issue as we were told that we would need that in order to submit to Cummins for warranty coverage.

They called us back after several days and said basically, all is good, truck is done and ready for pickup... :confused:

I asked for more details and was told that they had initially suspected a dusted engine for two reasons... First, they were getting a code associated with dust in the engine that was basically saying that crank case pressure was low... Second, when they first looked into it, they found dust in the turbo...

They ended up replacing a malfunctioning 'crank case pressure sensor' which was under warranty and that seems to be what was causing the issue. I asked, what about the dust they found in the turbo?... They replied that after looking into this that they believe that finding some dust in the turbo is a normal condition for an engine of this age.

So, it seems like they perhaps just jumped to conclusions when they first looked into the issue...

Once we get our bill, we will see what they have charged us for the 'troubleshooting' and determine if we need to push back on any charges levied, as it seems as though they should have considered the possibility of a faulty sensor initially, instead of driving us crazy by telling us we need an engine overhaul, yadda yadda... haahahaaa...

Thank you for all comments and suggestions!
 
They ended up replacing a malfunctioning 'crank case pressure sensor' which was under warranty and that seems to be what was causing the issue.
And herein lies the problem. Mis-diagnosis leads to so much money and time being spent on something that didn't need to be. We run Volvos and freightliners in our fleet, and having a mechanic who actually has experience in these trucks is worth their literal weight in gold. Had a volvo have a constant shifting issues (when turned off at a pick up or delivery and turned back on it wouldn't shift into drive) the dealer said the truck needed a new transmission. Quoted about 20k from them for out of warranty repair. Took it to our mechanic to really see if that was the issue, and he took the time to diagnose the actual issue, road tested and found a chaffed wire from the shifter going into the TCM....literally a $150 repair + the diagnose fee and we'ev put about 250k on it since with no issues.

Its very apparent these days, that the replace opposed to repair is the mindset at shops, which in my opinion is a total shame. Just think about all the Cummins engines out there that have been ripped out with faulty sensors that are completely fine.
 
And herein lies the problem. Mis-diagnosis leads to so much money and time being spent on something that didn't need to be. We run Volvos and freightliners in our fleet, and having a mechanic who actually has experience in these trucks is worth their literal weight in gold. Had a volvo have a constant shifting issues (when turned off at a pick up or delivery and turned back on it wouldn't shift into drive) the dealer said the truck needed a new transmission. Quoted about 20k from them for out of warranty repair. Took it to our mechanic to really see if that was the issue, and he took the time to diagnose the actual issue, road tested and found a chaffed wire from the shifter going into the TCM....literally a $150 repair + the diagnose fee and we'ev put about 250k on it since with no issues.

Its very apparent these days, that the replace opposed to repair is the mindset at shops, which in my opinion is a total shame. Just think about all the Cummins engines out there that have been ripped out with faulty sensors that are completely fin
Yep, and after they put the new transmission in and have the same issues they'll identify the same problem your tech found and replace the TCM wire harness saying the plug was worn and should be replaced as well when you put in a new transmission. The core transmission will be sold as-is to an after market location who will put it under a different truck with no issues.

Dealers make a ton of money on some people.