Armstrong Transport Group LLC

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XPORTIN

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Feb 1, 2023
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We ended up picking up a reefer load via a double broker (In Line Brokerage) and found out 5 weeks after delivery that the load was actually booked to Armstrong Transport.

We contacted the consignee and found this out and reached out to Armstrong to get our payment and the broker is telling us they already paid the original carrier that did this shipment (whoever they gave the load to)

We provided them POD and Ratesheet from the double broker but they don't seem to care even though the POD shows our companys name and truck trailer.

What avenues do I have in order to receive this payment?

The double broker (IN Line Brokerage) is not answering our calls or emails now.
 
We have gone through the same process a few times, and tried everything in the books. There's only one thing that seems to work.

Step 1. Give the original customer the invoice and POD with a set date before going to collections
Step 2. If they don't seem to care, send the invoice and POD to collections
Step 3. Take this as an opportunity to learn where your vetting process went wrong

Many times the issue is resolved at Step 1. If not resolved at Step 1, its always resolved at Step 2.
 
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I agree with the above, but what do you do when the Broker agreement states "all payments and invoices must be paid by "the broker" and carrier will not sought out payment from the shipper". Its not the exact verbage but I see it alot in Broker-Carrier contracts which pretty much ties the carriers hands in seeking compensation. There really should be a "services rendered non-payment lein" that can be placed on the Broker for situations like this.
 
Actually ran into that situation.

The customer contacted the broker that originally gave the load out asking "what's going on?". The broker then called us right away and paid us within minutes because they didn't want us to go through collections and potentially ruin their account.
 
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Melroy75 said:
I agree with the above, but what do you do when the Broker agreement states "all payments and invoices must be paid by "the broker" and carrier will not sought out payment from the shipper".
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There is no value in such statements.
In the essence, the original broker lost control of the transaction. The actual carrier information was disclosed to Consignee who has the responsibility to ensure that the carrier is paid. If broker refuses to pay, go after Consignee.
 
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economy said:
In the essence, the original broker lost control of the transaction.
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I gotcha, basically it can be argued the Agreement is void since the the shipment was double brokered and the final carrier who did the movement technically was never contracted by the Original Broker/Shipper. That does make sense.
 
Melroy75 said:
I agree with the above, but what do you do when the Broker agreement states "all payments and invoices must be paid by "the broker" and carrier will not sought out payment from the shipper". Its not the exact verbage but I see it alot in Broker-Carrier contracts which pretty much ties the carriers hands in seeking compensation. There really should be a "services rendered non-payment lein" that can be placed on the Broker for situations like this.
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You ignore the verbiage and contact shipper or receiver, this will get everyone's attention. I'm not a lawyer but I don't think that verbiage would hold up in court if someone accuses you of violating the terms of the agreement.

If I understand this correctly, Armstrong Transport was given the load by their customer and brokered the load to In Line Brokerage who brokered to you.

The customer paid Armstrong and Armstrong has paid In Line.

In theory Armstrong owes you nothing and your issue is with In Line Brokerage who is ghosting you.

When you contact the shipper and receiver for payment and send out demand notices from a lawyer or collection agency this will put pressure on Armstrong to resolve the issue with you or deal with In Line -- assuming this is a good customer for Armstrong.

Good luck and do not give the original POD to the double broker

Assuming this is Armstrong https://www.armstrongtransport.com/

Can you forward the information on In Line Brokerage
 
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Melroy75 said:
I agree with the above, but what do you do when the Broker agreement states "all payments and invoices must be paid by "the broker" and carrier will not sought out payment from the shipper". Its not the exact verbage but I see it alot in Broker-Carrier contracts which pretty much ties the carriers hands in seeking compensation.
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Broker-carrier agreements - always make amendments. That notion above should have been crossed off. The carrier always has the right to seek payment from another party if not paid directly by the broker. I should start a new thread on these 'contracts' as of late. Broker agreements that were 10 pages long 3 years ago are coming across now at 15-20+ pages. Read them carefully and don't be afraid to sign and send them back with lots of wording crossed off.
 
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Enlist the services of a good transportation para legal. Have them craft a simple and to the point demand letter. Send that letter to everyone, shipper, receiver, Armstrong and the double broker. In spite of your best efforts, you haven't created enough "noise". No one wants to go through the aggravation of defending even a frivolous law suit. Someone will call someone else and you will get paid.
 
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How to get paid 101 -

Call up the customer, BOL act supersedes everything. You are the right carrier who hauled the load and are entitled to the funds.

The customer will likely refer you to the Armstrong, now it is up to Armstrong to pay you. If they choose not to again, you go back to the customer, lawyer in hand this time.

Usually once the lawyers get involved, you get paid pretty quick from the customer/Armstrong, it's very cut and dry.
 
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UPDATE: we were contacted back by Armstrong Group carrier relations. They requested our e-logs which we have sent over.

Will update once i hear back... might not need to lawyer up but have learned a lot from this thread. Thank you everyone for your insight
 
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Is simple, check people out before you accept a load. Do your own credit check and due diligence before accepting the load. If they tell you they are clearing it on their paps or pars then that maybe an indication they are double brokering. Not too late to back out if you smell shit. Lot of shit out there.
 
UPDATE: Armstrong group has offered us 2800USD stating the $6100USD rate we originally were given by the double broker was an 'inflated rate'. They can only settle us for the 2800USD as per their carrier relations department.

Should we accept this offer or try to get collections involved and attempt to get the 6100USD we were given a rate confirmation for from the double broker who is not responding to us at all?
 
XPORTIN said:
UPDATE: Armstrong group has offered us 2800USD stating the $6100USD rate we originally were given by the double broker was an 'inflated rate'. They can only settle us for the 2800USD as per their carrier relations department.

Should we accept this offer or try to get collections involved and attempt to get the 6100USD we were given a rate confirmation for from the double broker who is not responding to us at all?
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Hard to know if fair without lane information, but how can you hold them to rate you negotiated with the scammers?
 
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I would ask for the original rate tender sent to the "double broker". They may doctor it up to show "$2800.00 USD" but if they are honest you could see what they originally paid the DB and ask to be paid that. The good news is that they are communicating so I'd keep the dialogue open. If I'm not mistaken Collections only buy the invoices at 50% and if thats the case you'd be looking at a $250 difference. IMO I'd be looking at it for the long run, they would be more inclined to working with you directly after all this which can turn into more business. Again just IMO.
 
Melroy75 said:
I would ask for the original rate tender sent to the "double broker". They may doctor it up to show "$2800.00 USD" but if they are honest you could see what they originally paid the DB and ask to be paid that. The good news is that they are communicating so I'd keep the dialogue open. If I'm not mistaken Collections only buy the invoices at 50% and if thats the case you'd be looking at a $250 difference. IMO I'd be looking at it for the long run, they would be more inclined to working with you directly after all this which can turn into more business. Again just IMO.
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agreed - without lane info not sure if that rate is fair - also TBH USD3300 is a huge difference ... I would outline what my absolute breakeven is if below what they are offering to settle at and build a relationship with Armstrong ... atleast they are talking to you
teh double broker will not respond - would be helpful to get their name so we all avoid them
 
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