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PackRat

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May 26, 2008
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So we booked a shipment for 10 skids 20' with a carrier. We were just notified that the skids were double stacked and top skids fell over and were marked damaged. So claim aside, we paid for 20' and they double stacked into 10'. Do we ask for reduced rate? Thoughts?
PR
 
IMO, it depends on how the confirmation was worded. If you booked 10 skid spots / 20 ft then yes, you should get a reduced rate. If it was just ten skids with the dimensions you may not have an argument.
 
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DIETCOKE said:
IMO, it depends on how the confirmation was worded. If you booked 10 skid spots / 20 ft then yes, you should get a reduced rate. If it was just ten skids with the dimensions you may not have an argument.
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10 skids 20' on the confirmation
 
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PackRat said:
So we booked a shipment for 10 skids 20' with a carrier. We were just notified that the skids were double stacked and top skids fell over and were marked damaged. So claim aside, we paid for 20' and they double stacked into 10'. Do we ask for reduced rate? Thoughts?
PR
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we do LTL once in a while - did the rate con specify no double stacking - we make sure it is specified as soemtimes the shipper does it - and then we have had to show them instructions
 
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If I have a trailer with logistics bars ( NOT STACKING ON TOP OF THE OTHER SKID AND DAMAGING IT) and depending on the weight and I can stack it, I don't see why I have to get paid less. Alot of time price is based on size of the skid. Can I ask for more if they cant be double stacked?
 
Mario said:
If I have a trailer with logistics bars ( NOT STACKING ON TOP OF THE OTHER SKID AND DAMAGING IT) and depending on the weight and I can stack it, I don't see why I have to get paid less. Alot of time price is based on size of the skid. Can I ask for more if they cant be double stacked?
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We have no issues with load bars. (I understand load factor)....but don't rate for 20' and then double stack, show up to the consignee with them decked and damaged and expect to get paid for 20'.....IMHO.
 
Once the carrier takes possession of the LTL shipment, they can pretty much do whatever they want with it. If your rate confirmation AND, the Bill of Lading stipulated No Stacking, then you might have a case. If it was only on the rate conf and discussed over the phone, probably not. With LTL it is in the carriers best interest to maximize the revenue on his trailer and that can and does mean stacking right to the roof whenever possible. Yes , it would have been nice if the carrier had called and said, ” we loaded your 10 skids and it took less space than you said it would, how about we drop the rate?” Nice, but highly unlikely. Doesn’t hurt to ask of course!
 
Yes correct NEVER SHOW UP WITH THE FREIGHT DOUBLE STACKED AND DAMAGED AT THE CUSTOMER. THAT IS JUST DUMB AND DONT'T EXEPECT TO GET PAID! But when the customer is asking for a price on 20 feet we will quote on 20 feet. If we know that the weight and measurements given that this can be double stacked safely on load bars and not damaging the below skids with the equipment we have, I don't think I have to offer a price on 10 feet. All carriers run different equipment.
 
PackRat said:
So we booked a shipment for 10 skids 20' with a carrier. We were just notified that the skids were double stacked and top skids fell over and were marked damaged. So claim aside, we paid for 20' and they double stacked into 10'. Do we ask for reduced rate? Thoughts?
PR
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Who stacked the freight? Was it the shipper who put in 5 double stacked skids? If it was them, then it's an issue between the shipper and the receiver. If it was the carrier who double stacked the skids after the shipper put 10 on the floor, then it's worth the conversation of why this happened.
 
"NEVER SHOW UP WITH THE FREIGHT DOUBLE STACKED AND DAMAGED AT THE CUSTOMER. THAT IS JUST DUMB AND DONT'T EXEPECT TO GET PAID!" ... now that statement is just dumb. In this situation as an LTL shipment, or even a full load for that matter, I would be ecstatic if you didn't pay me. I don't get paid, I don't have to honour the claim :)

@PackRat ... LTL is not really my wheelhouse, but if I am reading correctly, you offered up 10 skids in 20 feet of space, and asked the carrier for a rate. He gave you a rate and you accepted it. He delivered it. You pay. That is the extent of your involvement. If the carrier found a more efficient way for him to haul it, that's his bonus, not yours. If there wasn't any damage, would this topic even be posted? Would this even be a question? But like I said, LTL is not my strong suit. Maybe that world operates differently than mine.
 
With anything one has to be very careful about loading parameters. If you're shipping steel ingots then perhaps it isn't so important... but for most consumer commodities your load con should specify DO NOT STACK OR TOP LOAD SKIDS. Of course, to be fair to the carrier, you need to mention that when you're getting the quote.
 
Jim L said:
Who stacked the freight? Was it the shipper who put in 5 double stacked skids? If it was them, then it's an issue between the shipper and the receiver. If it was the carrier who double stacked the skids after the shipper put 10 on the floor, then it's worth the conversation of why this happened.
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Shipper loaded 20'. Carrier took back to their dock and double stacked them into 10'
 
Michael Ludwig said:
"NEVER SHOW UP WITH THE FREIGHT DOUBLE STACKED AND DAMAGED AT THE CUSTOMER. THAT IS JUST DUMB AND DONT'T EXEPECT TO GET PAID!" ... now that statement is just dumb. In this situation as an LTL shipment, or even a full load for that matter, I would be ecstatic if you didn't pay me. I don't get paid, I don't have to honour the claim :)

@PackRat ... LTL is not really my wheelhouse, but if I am reading correctly, you offered up 10 skids in 20 feet of space, and asked the carrier for a rate. He gave you a rate and you accepted it. He delivered it. You pay. That is the extent of your involvement. If the carrier found a more efficient way for him to haul it, that's his bonus, not yours. If there wasn't any damage, would this topic even be posted? Would this even be a question? But like I said, LTL is not my strong suit. Maybe that world operates differently than mine.
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Hi Michael,

My reference to load bars addresses (or did in my mind) that yes....operational efficiencies found/done by the carrier is rightfully their...BUT...again in my little mind.....it is unreasonable to ask for a quote for 20'...pay that rate....and then have them squash into 10', damage it, and then expect to be paid for 20'. That wouldn't fly with any shippers I know.....
 
PackRat said:
Shipper loaded 20'. Carrier took back to their dock and double stacked them into 10'
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If you can prove it then your claim should be seamless. It was obvious that the carrier damaged it and there is no way they can squirm out of that one. Pay what you expected to pay and tell your customer that carrier is off your list.
 
If it's a questionable carrier, you may want to copy their insurance company on your intent to claim. Just to cover your butt in the event they don't honor the claim. If they do, it's a non issue with insurance.
 
As Michael Ludwig pointed out, had there not been a claim for damaged freight, no one would be the wiser regarding the stacking of the skids. It is my understanding, and from experience, this is a very common practice with many LTL carriers. It just drives home the importance of having each and every special requirement spelled out in detail on the contract of carriage….the Bill of Lading. When a shipment goes sideways for whatever reason, the B/L can either save you or sink you.
 
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Capner said:
If it's a questionable carrier, you may want to copy their insurance company on your intent to claim. Just to cover your butt in the event they don't honor the claim. If they do, it's a non issue with insurance.
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@Capner ... honestly, I am not singling you out specifically, or poking fun at just you. It's just that you happened to make the statement, and I have chosen to respond to it.

Your thought process is incorrect. "You", or any other third party, cannot initiate a claim with a motor carrier's insurance carrier without consent of the motor carrier. Furthermore, if the motor carrier chooses to initiate a claim, the first question the insurance carrier is going to ask the motor carrier is "Has your invoice for transportation been paid?". If the motor carrier replies in the negative, everything on the claim stops, and if nothing progresses within 9 months, the claim dies on the vine right then and there, and "you" have no recourse once that happens.

It absolutely amazes me that people just think "Oh, I can just make a claim against someone's insurance.". You cannot do that. Someone else's insurance policy is not a public bank account that anyone can make a withdrawal from if they "feel" they have been wronged.
Furthermore, you may think you have a claim, but in reality you do not. In fact I would hazard a guess that better than half the people on this forum don't even know what the legal limitations are on how much they can claim, or even if they have a viable claim for that matter.

There are time, and court, tested rules and regulations that govern the world of cargo claims.
 
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