Originals

loaders

Site Supporter
30
I understand your question Dontgetit. In your example, both the receiver and the driver have an original, signed copy of the B/L. That’s great if the receiver is the party paying the freight bill. If it is the shipper, or some other third party, in some unique, rare instances, they too might require an actual signed original copy. In the situation that I am familiar with, it was a case of someone manipulating information on a scanned or photocopied B/L from sometime in the past, that prompted the customer to request only originals going forward. As I said, rare and certainly unique.
 

RAINDOG

New Member
2
In cases of manipulation, an original could be just as false as a scan? Seems to be a time burner to demand the originals for those very small cases when there is manipulation involved, when most of the time this is a non-issue.
 

loaders

Site Supporter
30
Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. I have found from my experience that keeping your customer happy and giving him what he wants(within reason of course) goes a long way towards getting paid on time.
 

Jim L

Well-Known Member
20
For the life of me I do not understand why the BOL (copy or original) must still be sent to a customer (freight payor or broker). The receiver should have a copy of the BOL and any additional paperwork that was attached to it. (Packing list). Should there be a problem only then should people request copies of what was signed - who looks at them close enough anyways after the fact. Those issues should come to light very quickly such as shortages or damages - the receiver should be quick to act and call the shipper or the buyer. The large players in the industry like FedEx or UPS do not even have a document that they leave with the consignee or return to the freight payor.

I have a number of direct customers who do not want it - only the invoice. I have a couple brokers who send us a spreadsheet of weekly loads where we put our invoice number, confirm the rate and the invoice gets paid accordingly. Both scenarios do not require the POD and both scenarios pay within terms based on the delivery date. This process is ideal and should be the norm in our industry.

From my experience, those brokers who need the original POD are usually trying to subvert the system; often times trying to show the freight payor that they had completed the move on their assets. We initiated a stamp that went on the POD with our name on it and the consignee would sign but often times the freight payor will receive one that is whited-out proving to me that they do not want the freight payor knowing who actually moved their freight.

Either way I would never give my original POD's. As @Michael Ludwig said, they are part of a contractual agreement with someone and are often used by CRA, CBSA and CBP to prove export or the quantities imported on your border crossing information. Should a court issue come up, you'll want that in your hand instead of someone else's.
 

economy

Active Member
10
I have found from my experience that keeping your customer happy and giving him what he wants(within reason of course) goes a long way towards getting paid on time.
That is exactly why the problems are arising within transportation industry when brokers are acting to keep their customers happy for within reason. But who is to define the "REASON"? What reasonable to you might absolutely not be reasonable to someone else.

There are governing laws and regulations that broker needs to be aware of, PERIOD. Working with the customers obliges the broker to advise their customers of how things work in transportation industry. Isn't it the reason of any cargo owner to hire the broker for their expertise and know how? Isn't it that cargo owner is looking to be safe and protected form any issues by hiring the broker to arrange the cargo moves?

The subject of this thread was whether or not Broker is entitled to receive/demand the original BOL from the carrier prior to releasing the payment. Michael Ludwig has provided the full breakdown why its a NO. What is more to discuss? Relationship between Broker and Customer, no carrier that is not timely paid cares for it, and this is the reality.

Verification whether or not carrier actually was the one doing the load. This needs to be verified by the Shipper prior to loading the truck and by the consignee during offloading. THE TRUCKS AND DRIVERS ARE PHYSICALLY THERE, broker is not. I believe that brokers has to advise their customers to monitor the arriving trucks and explain why such is essential. If shipper and consignee are disregarding such verification, why should it be the problem of the carrier? Couple of steps of few seconds each would easily eliminate the non authorized double brokerage issues and ensure that the proper carrier is paid.

We all have to realize that between well established relationships any in place arrangements that are outside of the scope of the governing laws and regulations should not take place. But if they do, involved parties are placing themselves at risk.
 

loaders

Site Supporter
30
The ability to keep ones customer happy, whether it is within reason or not, is certainly not one of the factoring industry's strong suits. It seems abundantly apparent that this factoring company shares the same opinion of brokers, as many brokers do of factoring companies. Having a factoring company try and tell the brokerage industry how to conduct their business is laughable at best and dangerous at worst.
 

loaders

Site Supporter
30
For the life of me, I cannot understand why there are so many opinions about this that all seem to point to a broker doing something nefarious or underhanded. Maybe....just maybe, the brokers customer, you know, the one who is a party to the Bill of Lading and that actually pays for the freight movement, wants an original copy. Is that so far fetched? I agree, it doesn't happen often and yes, I suppose there might be some bad ass broker who might use that as a delaying tactic, but gentlemen please, let's not let our emotions get the better of us here. Jim L is correct, there are more and more customers who forgo receiving a B/L and require only an invoice. There are many, many others who would blindly accept pretty much any kind of paperwork. However, in those rare, rare instances where a customer, via a broker, requests an original copy in order to complete the payment process, why in God's name wouldn't you send him one?
 

Michael Ludwig

Well-Known Member
20
However, in those rare, rare instances where a customer, via a broker, requests an original copy in order to complete the payment process, why in God's name wouldn't you send him one?
Because the original Bills of Lading do not belong to him. If your customer's relationship with his customer is dependent on the original Bill of Lading, then that relationship is suspect in the least and tenuous at best.

Let's be real. Load Brokers come in two flavours. Those that are an integral part of the transportation system, and are up front about what they do. They are transparent in all of their dealings on both sides of the transaction. They don't make carriers sign contracts that are heavily weighted in favour of the broker, and do not try to contract outside the laws. They pay, and guarantee that pay in reasonable terms. These are honest brokers.

Then there are the others. The ones that concoct every conceivable scheme imaginable to scrap and steal as much money as they can out of a load.

The reality is that the sketchy brokers are the ones that ask for original bills of lading, and they do so for a variety of reasons. I would suspect the biggest two are;
1) The broker is intent on delaying payment to the carrier, if not trying to circumvent it altogether.
2) The "broker" does not want the customer to know they are using someone else's assets.

@loaders ... I get what you're saying ... there are times when your customer has a real dog's breakfast of a problem on his hands and he needs that original bill of lading to prove his case to his customer, or a court. I am all for giving up the original in that circumstance ... as long as the customer gives me a letter stating what he needs the original for, and why. That way I can attach that letter to the copy I keep and when CRA, CBSA, or CBP comes looking for it, I can tell them where it is, and why it is there.

But as a normal course of business? no. Absolutely not.

Lastly, I have to agree with @thebluffs1 ... there must be a conspiracy ... It's the only explanation !!!
 

loaders

Site Supporter
30
Of course. Obviously if a broker demands original B/Ls for each and every shipment, something is seriously amiss. All I am suggesting is that in those rare, infrequent, unique cases where an original is requested strictly to be provided to the payor of the freight charges, it should be possible to comply with that request.
 

WOODY

Member
5
we have had every conceivable audit from both Canada & the US, and have never been required to produce an original anything. I have only ever seen this request as a payment delay tactic........that's just my experience.
 

Cruise

New Member
2
Just want to clarify my position. My objective is to always make sure the carrier who hauled the load gets paid. This carrier is new to the industry and new to us. Almost all of the carriers we do business submit their invoices electronically. With new carriers, originals are requested especially moving within Canada. If you've been in the industry for awhile you probably know the issues and understand why I request those. The actual carrier that hauled this load is going to have a problem. The behaviour of these operators stinks of "Continental Freight Movers".
 

Cruise

New Member
2
Or you can tell your shipper the carrier/truck/trailer number that is loading and if that is not who shows up don't load them
Shakey, we even take it 1 step further depending on the commodity. but I am going to suggest that change for each and every load we do.
 

tasuinam

Member
5
Or you can tell your shipper the carrier/truck/trailer number that is loading and if that is not who shows up don't load them
I'm okay with supplying this info. but the truck# may change depending on which of my drivers is scheduled for that load - sometimes we do load our empty trailers a few days in advance anticipating what our capacity will be for the coming week
 

Cruise

New Member
2
Still waiting to hear from the actual carrier who hauled this load (Toronto - Winnipeg Tri Axle delivered July 15th Trip 5338 (possibly a team)) to figure out he's not getting paid by the company who hired him. Want to get him paid. Anybody hear anything please let me know. Thx
 
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