Originals

Cruise

New Member
2
I have a new carrier that is saying he needs his originals for CRA audits :rolleyes:. I require originals from new (to me) carriers until we have an established trusted working relationship, unless of course they are well established in the industry. My objective is to do what I can to make sure the carrier hauling the load gets paid. This load is a bigger invoice moved between points in Canada. Trying to collect his invoice now @ 45 days, he says "maybe your customer will pay from copies". I have been doing this along time and my gut is telling me he did NOT haul this load. Anyone pick up a load in Weston ON and deliver to Winnipeg on July 15th?
 
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economy

Active Member
10
BOL is a document created for passing the goods between the parties Shipper, Carrier and Consignee. Carrier is one of the party of the BOL, therefore entitled to hold on to original documentation. The objective you have to make sure the carrier hauling the load gets paid is something that you have to figure out on your own regardless whether or not originals are presented to you.
 

Cruise

New Member
2
I do believe legally the receiver is entitled to the originals. Also the carrier should not have accepted my load confirmation which holds legal status that can be relied upon.
 

economy

Active Member
10
BOL is usually prepared in multiple copies so the receiver get the original by default of the transaction. For everything else that you are mentioning "legal status" - if you are not feeling comfortable dealing with the carrier, you should not have get into dealing with them from the start, not vise versa. By governing laws Carrier is entitled to be paid for the contract of carriage prior to delivery. Releasing the goods to the consignee was done in a good face and trust that the Broker is to pay timely.

All your doubts are your issues and you have to figure them out.
 
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RAINDOG

Member
5
Maybe I am showing my ignorance, but I always thought the carrier keeps one of the original copies and gives an original to the receiver? Then the broker or customer would get a scanned copy of a signed BOL? why is it necessary for the broker to have the original BOL?
 

Cruise

New Member
2
Any carriers who have taken loads and not received payment because the load was double brokered and the transportation company you took the load from has now disappeared? What do you think?

bull958 - If you moved the load for this "carrier" and will not release your originals that is a good thing as far as I'm concerned, because maybe it was my load and I want to make sure you get paid. If you started hauling cargo for a well known shipper or broker that pays their bills but would like the originals at the beginning because they don't know you, would you comply with their request, Also considering you accepted the brokers load confirmation? You are welcome to tell me before you accept my load confirmation that you will not supply originals and I can agree or not.....

Economy - my load confirmation will hold up to scrutiny in court.
 

economy

Active Member
10
@Cruise, you joint this forum and asked the community the question, we gave you the answer based on governing laws and industry experience. Perhaps you are not that happy with what you heard from us, but you do not need to push your agenda or build the argument; Been there, done it! You have entered the transportation world, learn how to be in it. What you need to understand is who is the Broker and what is the role of the Broker.

Something tells me that there is a lack of experience, especially of you being in courts. On the other hand, collections is what we do on daily basis. Therefore, I could only suggest for you stop this argument and proceed consulting with your legal representative on the subject. Good luck to you!
 

bubba-one

Site Supporter
15
Also note many companies require the driver to fill out his own carriers bill of lading and have the shipper and receive sign on top of the shippers bill of lading to give them recourse should the broker not pay.
 

loaders

Site Supporter
30
We have a few customers that require an original copy of the B/L. We make that known to the carrier in advance and have yet to receive any negative blow back from the carriers we use. Economy, your reference to governing laws requiring payment before delivery might be true, however most if not all carriers and brokers realize that common trade practices require credit terms be extended. If a carrier demanded payment before delivery it would be the one and only load they would haul for me and their name and behavior would be broadcast quite clearly on Inside Transport. Bubba-one, excellent point and something that many carriers do not do any more it seems. A shipper's issued Bill of Lading is quite standard, however, there are shippers who will insert clauses that can become quite problematic for a carrier if they go unnoticed at the time of loading. A good practice is to have the driver complete one of your own B/Ls as protection against one sided or improper documents.
 

Cruise

New Member
2
Economy, I am not arguing, I was looking for feedback from carriers and perhaps other brokers. Just for the record I have been in this industry before your company was even a concept.
 

Michael Ludwig

Well-Known Member
20
I do believe legally the receiver is entitled to the originals. Also the carrier should not have accepted my load confirmation which holds legal status that can be relied upon.
You can believe all you want but the receiver is NOT entitled to the originals, legally or otherwise. The only one entitled to the originals is the CARRIER as set forth in the Motor Carrier Act, U.S. Code: Title 49, and CRA regulations, in particular the ones dealing with CBSA.
As for your load confirmation, it holds no legal status whatsoever. It is not a duly executed contract. It is, at best, a set of instructions noted by the carrier that s/he has received them.

I always tell anyone who asks for the original that they can have it as soon as I get paid. Not before....
And that ^^^, boys and girls, is the right way to do it.
The original copy, the one with the blue ink, belongs to the carrier. The bottom copy goes to the shipper, and the next copy goes to the receiver.
My sets are done in 4's.
Copy 1 - Original - is mine.
Copy 2 - is a carbon copy of Copy 1 and goes to accounting and from there can go to the payer of the freight.
Copy 3 - once signed, copy 3 remains with the receiver.
Copy 4 - once signed, copy 4 remains with the shipper.

At the very top of my bill of lading is this statement ...
"This Bill of Lading supersedes shipper generated Bills of Lading"

If you are a load broker and you are not comfortable with Copy 2 as mentioned above, a photocopy, or a scan, then I'm afraid we just can't do business. Why on earth would anyone give away the original copy of a contract to someone who is inherently unlikely to be acting in the carrier's best interest ???
 

loaders

Site Supporter
30
I realize that there are some carriers out there that treat an original copy of the Bill of Lading like some sort of a rare Picasso painting, but remember, in almost every case I can think of, the broker is not asking for himself to perhaps wallpaper his bathroom with, but on behalf of his customer, the actual payer of the freight charges. The argument that these precious originals should be guarded with your life due to some government regulation, seems to loose its significance once the freight bill is paid. Once that happens, as indicated from the posts above, the carrier will start handing them out like candy. The broker’s customer, whether they be the shipper or the receiver or the third party bill to, is a party to the contract of carriage. Another thing to keep in mind is, really how often does this come up? Is it often enough to to make a Federal case out of? Just my 2 cents for a Friday morning.
 

loaders

Site Supporter
30
One more thing. Michael, you cut me to the bone with that comment “someone who is inherently unlikely to be acting in the carriers best interest”.LOL. My goodness my friend, the broker is insuring you get paid for your service! If that isn’t “in your best interest”........what is?
 

RAINDOG

Member
5
honest question - why can't a scan of the original be sufficient? What is on the original that is not on the scan other than one is an email, and one has to go through the post.
 

Michael Ludwig

Well-Known Member
20
One more thing. Michael, you cut me to the bone with that comment “someone who is inherently unlikely to be acting in the carriers best interest”.LOL. My goodness my friend, the broker is insuring you get paid for your service! If that isn’t “in your best interest”........what is?
My sincerest apologies for the inaccuracies of my oration. My reference was aimed at the members of the brokerage community that insist on "original bills of lading" no matter what. It was certainly not aimed at the occasional instance where the shipper, via the broker, needs the original documents to clarify some sort of accounting discrepancy, whether it be monetary in nature or the goods themselves, with the receiver or any other interested party.
 

dontgetit

Active Member
10
Curiosity?? when said driver delivers said shipment (in all my years) the receiver (said customer) signs BOL driver gets a sign "original" & receiver gets a "original" ???? so said customer has an "original copy"??? why would they require a "copy" oh could it be for the receivers signature as proof of delivery?? well ok so a scan or copy should be adequate???

sorry just asking a real world obvious & kinda laughing about this wonderful world we live in!
 

loaders

Site Supporter
30
Apologies graciously accepted. Occasionally, I too suffer from the crime of becoming enamoured with my own discourse. My wife refers to it much more colloquially as common bullsh**! The nerve of that woman!
 

tasuinam

Active Member
10
well currently due to Covid there is contactless delivery and hence no 'original'..just sayin'... we have our drivers write delivery date and time and sign it in such cases
 
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