what do you call this ?

[Parisite]

So we offer freight on LINK, get 2 offers to haul it, take the trucker's rate (not the cheapest btw, but the one that fits our schedule and needs best) make our pitch, secure the freight and fax the carrier. An hour later the trucker gives the freight back, pissed off because they work for the same shipper from time to time. What's wrong, they didn't get invited to quote ? Whats the difference if they got they rate they wanted ? We didn't steal the business from them. We helped them get it ! The client shops every job anyway and we're just one of many. I'm sure we all find that since the internet and moreso with email, almost every client we have shops the Hell out of every shipment. I remember clients that asked for 3 rates cause they didn't feel like making 3 phone calls, but let's face it, today every decision maker has a list of "unidentified recipients" that probably contains a lot more then 3 suppliers, and they get rates, lots of them, and if you or I get the call it's going to come down to price or value. And the client is going to determine which is most important to them as booking time. So much for the "freight partner" concept.

 

[Maggs]

As a carrier, as long as I know the 3PL or other carrier didnt backdoor us, and I received the rate required as I accepted the load, then why would I give it back all pissed off? I would be pissed off if the 3PL or other carrier backed door me and offered me an insulting rate to service the load.

 

[Michael K]

If the client shops every job than they are not a client. We don't even rate those types of clients, we call those emails spam. Every time I come across one of those lists I always wonder to myself if the 50 people attached to it actually try to shop or rate the load.

 

[alx]

Parasite

Very unprofessional of the carrier.

Had a similar situation with a 3 Pl (actual customs broker) ask us to quote on freight from a somewhat obscure location that we service regularly.
By simply asking what suburb the freight actually went to we knew it was our regular stuff.

We advised the broker that asked us to quote that we would not do so and gave the reason why. We have a great rapport with the freight broker that has been giving us this freight over the last 5 years.

We then called our regular client to let them know their customer was shopping around.

We had this same scenario occur at least twice last year, where we were asked to quote on stuff we already do for brokers. We refused to do so and had the prospective brokers asking us to drop our price so that they could get the freight.

Of course we told them that we would do so right away for them!!!

 

[Nawk]

Certain carriers feel entitled to freight.

For instance... We once had freight moving from 'A' to 'B' on a consistent basis (shipped the same day each week). We used the same carrier week after week. Eventually, they started to get sloppy. The shipper asked that we make a change to explore other carriers and options to see if we could improve service.

When the regular ship day came around... the usual carrier called to ask what was moving. We said "We have nothing for you this week - sorry." (In hindsight we probably should've told them what was going on).

Anyway, we covered the freight with an alternate carrier (one that we had an existing relationship with) and the worst possible happened. They received bad information from 'their own' customer and ran out of room for our freight at 3:00 PM in the afternoon. I could hear the driver in the background on the radio saying how many feet of space he had left. It wasn't going to work.

In a panic... we posted the freight.

We forgot to block the regular carrier on the Link and they saw it.

They called absolutely livid! Screaming and hollering at "HOW DARE I POST "THEIR FREIGHT" ON THE LINK" and how sorry we would be that we ever back stabbed them!

Shippers choose to use brokers for many different reasons. Just one of those reasons is if they want a change (for whatever reason) it's easier with a broker because there's really (in the eyes of the shipper) a need to retrain a new service provider.

So... If this guy is pissed because you happened to get some freight that he wasn't previously getting and it happens to be coming out of the same building... perhaps you guys should back away from each other until they're ready to talk calmly and as adults about the situation.

 

[Freight Broker]

I'd say goodbye to that carrier and that shipper...who needs the hassle and who has the time to spot quote every shipment anyway.

 

[theman]

I have one customer in particular that has a few business units ... one of which is really rate sensitive because the product is low value, and they shop that stuff all the time, and the others just go by a published rate and done with it. We just do our best to work with them on that.

There are indeed some carriers that take this stance ... usually flatbed guys or there is 2 large van carriers out there that also do this. In my opinion, if you don't respond to a request, you shouldn't be upset you didn't get the freight.

Of course we would like every customer to be a close partner and collaborate with us on everything, but it's not totally realistic. One just has to be able to measure risk/reward in those cases.

 

[Parisite]

very interesting answers, it's refreshing to post something and not end up the the target of all kind of nasties. I agree with all of you,
Maggs it would be difficult for a 3PL to back door a carrier but I suppose in certain circumstances it could happen. We been around for 22 years and didn't last this long working unscrupulously.
It would be nice to tell all the shoppers to get lost but all clients do it now. Don't kid yourself. I got clients for 20 years plus that have become shoppers and new clients aren't falling off trees so I'm not about to cut off my nose.
It is very unprofessional, but you can't make a silk purse from a pig's ear. Is that how the saying goes ?
I think we've all had egg on our faces for one thing or another like Nawk's deal.
To me the bottom line is that the carrier and broker need each other as much as the chicken and the egg. You got your nut and I got mine and if we can sell that to client, who cares how it comes about ?

 

[Finnertyequip]

Other side of the coin:

Question to Nawk, this carrier that did all the flipping out because he hauled the loads on a regular basis, as you said "(shipped the same day each week). We used the same carrier week after week." then why did you wait for him to call you? you knew he would be calling, right? In all fairness you probably knew well before he called that he wasn't getting the freight. You should've told him when you found out from your customer that he should be looking for other freight. Being that he did every one of those loads for you like clockwork, I'm sure he kept his equipment around to cover it for you, and you pulled the rug out from him at the last minute. I can understand him being a little pissed.

 

[Nawk]

Question to Nawk, this carrier that did all the flipping out because he hauled the loads on a regular basis, as you said "(shipped the same day each week). We used the same carrier week after week." then why did you wait for him to call you? you knew he would be calling, right? In all fairness you probably knew well before he called that he wasn't getting the freight. You should've told him when you found out from your customer that he should be looking for other freight. Being that he did every one of those loads for you like clockwork, I'm sure he kept his equipment around to cover it for you, and you pulled the rug out from him at the last minute. I can understand him being a little pissed.

Fair question - Yes.

This was not T/L... In fact it was 2 - 6 Pallets each week.

As noted... (In hindsight we probably should've told them what was going on). It was handled poorly by us.

I'd like to add... that we've had almost this same situation happen with another customer. A carrier that was doing a regular move for us had some issues 3 or 4 shipments in a row and the customer flat out said "don't use those guys again". I relayed this to the carrier. They weren't happy about it but for sure Finnerty, it's much better to be up front about things.

 

[noproblembuddy]

Certain carriers feel entitled to freight.

For instance... We once had freight moving from 'A' to 'B' on a consistent basis (shipped the same day each week). We used the same carrier week after week. Eventually, they started to get sloppy. The shipper asked that we make a change to explore other carriers and options to see if we could improve service.

When the regular ship day came around... the usual carrier called to ask what was moving. We said "We have nothing for you this week - sorry." (In hindsight we probably should've told them what was going on).

Anyway, we covered the freight with an alternate carrier (one that we had an existing relationship with) and the worst possible happened. They received bad information from 'their own' customer and ran out of room for our freight at 3:00 PM in the afternoon. I could hear the driver in the background on the radio saying how many feet of space he had left. It wasn't going to work.

In a panic... we posted the freight.

We forgot to block the regular carrier on the Link and they saw it.

They called absolutely livid! Screaming and hollering at "HOW DARE I POST "THEIR FREIGHT" ON THE LINK" and how sorry we would be that we ever back stabbed them!

Shippers choose to use brokers for many different reasons. Just one of those reasons is if they want a change (for whatever reason) it's easier with a broker because there's really (in the eyes of the shipper) a need to retrain a new service provider.

So... If this guy is pissed because you happened to get some freight that he wasn't previously getting and it happens to be coming out of the same building... perhaps you guys should back away from each other until they're ready to talk calmly and as adults about the situation.

This situation happens a lot in the industry where some brokers will
post in spite of knowing line-ups or knowing who the regular carriers are. It happens and I think the vast majority are innocent oversights
and some are "running it up the flagpole to see who salutes."

I remember exactly the same instance where we had some LTL from Florida at Firm Transportation and there were two carriers who generally always did Florida: Blueline and Keena. We were giving Keena the freight and getting so-so service so Blueline was tried (this is when Blueline was good and Paul was working there.) So Keena flipped out and threatened to take "their freight" (they didn't - it wasn't their's to take lol.) While it's always good to keep a relationship with a carrier, that relationship has to be productive and profitable. There's no point in giving freight to a carrier that gives you a preferential rate but gives sloppy service. This happened with Synergy. They wanted to know why other carriers were getting "their" freight and it was because of all kinds of service issues and would call all the time. Of course, Polaris would always win because they're cool people, are fair with rates and if it doesn't work for you that time, it's all good. Unless there's a standing order that a carrier is always to get freight (like in a contract) or show up at a particular time on set days, and that understanding is made crystal clear, there's no exclusivity and especially if you get a mish-mash of carriers that service a particular lane. If the "A" and "B" list carriers (your primary and secondary carriers that you call before you post) can't do it, post away, Gridley.

C.H. Robinson is sometimes guilty of posting loads that carriers do on a regular basis and like to do them. However, I think the reason why is because they're hoping to get a carrier who will do it for a better margin instead of giving it away to the carriers that know the drill. When you call and ask why nobody let you know they had a particular load (even after reminding your point of contact there), they generally will apologize and advise someone else posted them. I don't doubt their sincerity. Some agents at C.H. Robinson are diligent about asking the incumbent or recent carrier if they want a load if you're at the top of their mind.

In my experience, Traffic Tech can be very deliberate about posting freight that you do well and you expect that someone would call and offer it to you. It's like dogs fighting for a pork chop. And then, after making you call in, they push the envelope by trying to get you to go lower than the last rate you did it for. That's to be expected - they're commission-based at TT.

 

[Dave in London]

Some really interesting comments from both sides.
As a carrier, you try to develop a relationship with a handful of quality brokers to compliment your own stuff. Hopefully, the relationship is tight enough that disclosure and honest communication prevails.
How did this carrier get 'sloppy' without being called on it, before it upset the customer? Every carrier on the planet will be late loading, late delivering, have less room or something in the wrong order on the tlr once in awhile. Thats truckin'. What is important is when and how it is communicated and handled.
I HATE service failures, but unless I drive every truck and man every customs booth, and run every forklift, and plow every highway, I cannot guarantee it won't happen.
Every customer thinks they are the only customer, and that LTL rate they pay means they control the whole truck and their freight comes first. Heck, thats our job--convince every customer on the load that theirs is most important
How we get it done is what makes us good or bad.
If I did regular freight for a broker and saw it posted, or got otherwise excluded, I would probably be upset, but self righteous indignation would not be the best way to sort it out.

 

[theman]

I think brokers to a large degree will post freight even though they have a good carrier base to haul it. Sometimes it's just carelessness, and sometimes, as noproblembuddy says, it's to try to maximize margin. There is a lot of freight being moved by brokers where the margin is pretty thin, and customers are not a dime a dozen, so as brokers we're kept on our toes to stay competitive and ahead of the curve -- and asset based carriers too but to a different degree.

I always say it's a partnership only when everyone is seeing some benefit, and no one party is getting 100% of what they want. If a broker isn't making sufficient margin on freight lanes that they are moving with steady partners and cannot get the increases from the customer that they are looking for, it is actually their duty to try to buy better. Even if the service is 100%.

Direct customers will do this too, it's just not necessarily posted on an intra-net like we have so we don't see it day to day.

 

[duke22]

I still call regulars on the lower margin freight, I simply explain that this is all I have in it, if it doesnt work let me know etc etc. Then if they decided the freight did not work for them I would post it. It's win win for everybody, I gave the carrier first crack the ball is in their park, if they turn it down I am not offended, I can simply post it on the Link?! How is this not happening at every brokerage, do these people never need a favor?!