Tricor Transportation Inc

Back solicitation is only successful when the shipper and the carrier agree that the broker in the middle adds little or no added value to the transaction. A broker can minimize back solicitation by doing well what a carrier cannot do...like providing diversifed transportation services to a shipper who needs that. Very few carriers can directly provide LTL and truckload services to all points in Canada and the United States on short notice. A good broker with a good supplier carrier base can however do that by coordinating his carriers to provide the service the shipper needs. This is why I purposely stay away from shippers who need service in only one or two lanes... it generally isn't a long term proposition for me as the shipper will eventually be able to get trucks for that directly to bypass my 20% markup. In other words, a broker can minimize back solicitation by ensuring his commission truly respresents value to the shipper above and beyond what the carrier provides.
 
Wow.

Miss a day miss a world! Another thread that makes you think.
It's funny how a grain cart can turn into a corn head but I've seen it done more than once.

I have found that if the broker sounds the least bit vague on details, I call everybody I can think of to try to get the true story. But I have also found no matter how much due diligence you throw at it, sometimes nobody knows how wide or heavy the damn thing is. I wouldn't blame anybody except maybe the shipper on Finnerty's deal. Sounds like he was the messed up one.

As for the back door/front door/side door thing, that's a bugger. Have I ever accepted work directly from a shipper that called me after I did work for them indirectly? Definitely. Have I done it cheaper than the broker? I hope not.
Have I ever protected a broker and refused the offer and called the broker to advise? Definitely. Have I called a shipper to cut out a broker? Never.

It depends on several factors in my mind. I have brokers that I do not consider brokers, but rather customers. If they treat me well, are knowledgeable, pay in reasonable time, and I don't find out they are keeping exorbitant margins, I generally refuse offers to quote direct.

I ALWAYS ask the customer when they call "why" are they looking to switch? If it's price, then they can p*** off. If it is a lack of service or communication, wanting to keep familiar trucks under specialized freight, or something like that, I will consider it if the broker has been 'iffy' with me.

The sad reality is this. My customer base is only protected by my relationship with my customers and my service. If I don't fail on either, I hope to God they wouldn't ask for other quotes. Everyone who has a customer "took" them from someone else, and will undoubtedly lose them to someone else down the road eventually. If this didn't happen, new carriers and brokers would never ever get a customer. The important thing for all parties is, if the broker gives the customer the service and attention, and the broker and carrier develop a mutually rewarding relationship, most carriers will protect the broker. Its when something in the chain falls apart that all bets are off.

When I lose a customer, I look in the mirror before I blame the other guy. Where did I fail? Why did my customer switch? If I can find a reason, how can I blame the other guy for trying to run his business. If I can't find a reason, then I call them both "no good dirty rotten %$#$$%%^" :)
 
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Dave in London,

A well written and thoughtful post. I would agree with everything you mentioned, except (there's always one of those) your comment about "exorbitant margins". The problem is, what is exorbitant? Also, why would the margin the broker makes have any bearing on whether or not you would bypass him if the opportunity presented itself? In other words, if the broker makes 15% you wouldn't, but if he makes 25% you would? I know that this whole thread has pretty much run it's course with plenty of worthwhile input and interesting comments, but from my postion as a broker, I wouldn't want the mark-up I deem to be compensatory to be a factor in a carrier deciding to back solicit me or not. Once everyone has agreed to a fair rate for the service provided, the mark-up to the customer is between me and them.
 
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Exorbitant is in the eye of the beholder. Some loads only warrant a 5% markup while others require in access of 25%...it all depends on the amount of work and risk involved. If there's alot of risk to me, then my margin goes up. If its a shipper I know well, a receiver I know well, and a trucker I know well, then my margin is much less.

My margins are also much less on repetitive freight that involves the same shippers, receivers, and carriers. I purposely keep those margins low to avoid the temptation of back solicitation by my carriers.

And sometimes, I purposely quote a lane at a loss to get the business provided that the whole package i..e all lanes taken together is profitable.
 
My exorbitant comment is the last criteria I listed for a reason. If I get the price I am happy with, I don't care how much the broker makes. If I get beaten down and given a song and dance to a rate I can barely swallow (but I don't want to fold for various reasons), then the broker better not be netting out more than me. Its our sweat, fuel and tears. I will go lean, so long as the broker shares the lean.

Freight broker was pretty eloquent. Some loads deserve or need more or less than others. Much like I assume intelligent brokers know what it takes to move a load, intelligent truckers should have an idea what it takes to broker a load.

"Exorbitant" has a way of defining itself on a day to day basis. We've all been there and know when a rate is "fat" and when a rate is "thin". And we've all taken both. Sometimes we're OK with it, and sometimes we're left with a bad taste in our mouth.

Loaders, I take exception to one phrase in your reply "I wouldn't want the mark-up I deem to be compensatory to be a factor in a carrier deciding to back solicit me or not"
Unsolicited requests for quotes are NOT back solicitation, If that is successfully argued as back solicitation, you are attempting to restrict your customers access to a free market. I can understand your opinion of not liking it, I can understand your opinion of disagreeing with it, and understand your opinion of thinking the carrier is an a**, but to me it's not back solicitation.

I don't want to dwell on that point, because no one will ever reach consensus, but it all boils down to what is fair. Beat my rate down, give me inaccurate load info, take 90 days to pay me, and keep 30%....yep, if your customer calls I might listen.
On the other hand, treat me fairly, and I will have your back. (I have a mittfull of references that will attest to that)
If nothing else, its an incentive to develop strong carrier relations and pay promptly.

Greg Rumble from CONTRANS, one of the most in-tune execs I have have ever met asked a question one time. "Would you rather have an account gross 20 million at 10%, or 10 million at 20%?"
He believes the answer is 20 million at 10%, because the other account will get taken from you. Agree or not, it makes sense.
 
Loaders

This thread has been very insightful and fairly argued on both sides.

May I add two comments:

The 1st being in full agreement with the lack of detail that certain freight brokers provide, mainly a complete address with postal/zip code and appropriate telephone numbers. I will not even venture into the freight detail.

The second would be addressed to loaders.
I agree with you regarding the profit margin being nobody's business, although only if it is being obtained legitimately. Hence I refer to the F.S.C. going fully to the Carrier. Whatever is charged to the end user as FSC goes directly to the carrier, not a penny taken by the freight broker.
 
Fyi

FYI everybody, the new Tricor agent here in Toronto is the one and only Troy MacLean from................................Camlane Group!!!!!
 
I am fearful that this thread has gone dramatically off topic from its origin, the oversized shipment, but, in response to Alx, for the past few months we have been negotiating rates with carriers on an "all-in" basis.
In some instances we have rates in place with our customers that have a fuel surcharge component, and that is usually at their request. I don't think it is unreasonable to incorporate some of the FSC we charge to our customer into our profit margin provided that we have first satisfied the carrier by paying him everything we mutually agreed to. Again, once the broker and the carrier have come to an agreement regarding compensation for services rendered, what and in what manner I charge my customer is no one else's concern.
 
I'm all for paying the carrier 100% of the fuel adjustment I get from my customer. After all, that's the intended purpose of the fuel surcharge, to defray the cost of fuel for the carrier. Sometimes freight is quoted on a spot market basis, in which case the rate is all in and we negotiate with the carrier on the same basis.
 
Did a search on Tricor in Toronto and it would seem that Mr. MacLean is working out of an apartment complex @ 325 Bogert Ave. North York M2N 1L8 Just in case anybody is still looking for him.
 
Loaders

My apologies for continuing this off tangent topic but as a carrier I cannot agree with the statement of what I charge my customer is no one's concern.

Your agreement with the carrier is one thing. Your invoicing the customer is another.
What you charge your client as the FSC, is what your client expects you are paying the carrier.
It is as simple as that, if not, it is miss representation.
 
If memory serves me correct Troy was trained by the infamous screwin dual consisting of Drew & his old man from CMX. As for information on the load, it is the broker who has the freight,so they should know proper dim's & weights. I can't count how many times a day we get calls from brokers wanting rates on moving "stuff", they have no idea what just a load of "stuff". Asked one, what customs would say when I pull up & tell him I've got a load of "stuff". LMAO
 
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