Quebec BOL law Info

JM0005

Member
Sep 1, 2022
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Milton,ON
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Any one knows about this, broker refused to pay us as they said they paid to the carrier who double brokered and said their responsibility ends there. We did the actual load and trying to get paid for our services.

After speaking with our lawyers, they confirm that the law in Quebec applies as this shipment left Quebec, the law stipulates that we if we paid the carrier that we hired then that is where our responsibility ends.
 
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Any one knows about this, broker(The Xtreme Group) refused to pay us as they said they paid to the carrier who double brokered and said their responsibility ends there. We did the actual load and trying to get paid for our services.

After speaking with our lawyers, they confirm that the law in Quebec applies as this shipment left Quebec, the law stipulates that we if we paid the carrier that we hired then that is where our responsibility ends.
There are quite a few smart guys/gals on this site (I like to include myself in that category) with lots and lots of transportation experience, however there are not too many actual lawyers, and even fewer transportation lawyers. So, it may be time for you to hire someone who will have the knowledge and experience to properly deal with your dilemma. You’ll get lots of sympathy and support and a great number of suggestions from this site, but it sounds like you need much more than that.
 
There are quite a few smart guys/gals on this site (I like to include myself in that category) with lots and lots of transportation experience, however there are not too many actual lawyers, and even fewer transportation lawyers. So, it may be time for you to hire someone who will have the knowledge and experience to properly deal with your dilemma. You’ll get lots of sympathy and support and a great number of suggestions from this site, but it sounds like you need much more than that.
Totally agree with you, We have started the process of hiring one transportation lawyer as no one wants to hear/help you unless you have all the information.
 
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Not a lawyer can't comment on Quebec BOL laws. As the carrier that pulled the load you should get paid. Companies that double broker, particularly those that dont pay the underlying carrier, are a blight on the freight industry.

Contact the shipper and receiver for payment, this will get the attention of The Xtreme Group.

As a 3PL we don't want to have to pay twice for the same load but we dislike having the carrier call the shipper, receiver and customer even more as it is an embarrassment and shows a breakdown or lack of processes to prevent this. We are paid to act on the customers behalf, manage the freight and get the best rate for the service required. You can't properly manage the freight once it passes through this many hands and do not know if the underlying carrier was properly vetted or explained the parameters of the shipment.

We have been in this situation several times and the first course of action is to contact the carrier we gave the load to and persuade them to pay the underlying carrier. Failing this we get lawyers involved, the underlying carrier always gets paid either by us or the double broker and occasionally we pay twice.

Who double brokered the load? We need know so we can blacklist them.
 
Here's a 2015 article by Quebec transportatation lawyer Pierre-Olivier Ménard Dumas

As shippers, Canadian retailers and manufacturers should be aware of potential liabilities related to payment of freight charges. The transportation of a product commonly involves several stakeholders: freight forwarders or brokers and multiple carriers. Who should then be paid?

In the province of Quebec, the shipper is discharged by paying one of the carriers. The outstanding carriers must then address their claims to the paid carrier. However, payment of the freight charges directly to a broker does not generally discharge a shipper of its liability to the carriers.

Where a shipper can get involved in a dispute over the payment of freight charges is when brokers, voluntarily or unknowingly, act as carriers, even though they in fact do not operate any commercial motor vehicles. The shipper may, in this case, be discharged by the payment to the broker, acting as carrier, but other carriers, if any, may of course dispute the qualification of the broker as such. To determine if a broker acted as a carrier, contracts and other arrangements will be scrutinized, as well as exchanges (via e-mail, telephone or other means), the freight charges, the invoice and prior and further arrangements between the parties. It could be difficult to assert that a broker acted in that role only (and not as a carrier) in circumstances in which it has designated itself as the carrier on a bill of lading.

It may also be a challenge to determine if the parties to a transportation contract agreed that the freight charges would be discharged by their payment to the broker, or if the carrier acted in a manner that would suggest that the broker had the mandate to receive the payment. In such cases, if the parties agreed or acted in a manner suggesting that the broker was entitled to receive the payment of the freight charges, the shippers will be discharged by the payment of the freight charges to the broker.

Otherwise, shippers that paid their brokers rather than the carriers may face lawsuits from carriers that have not been paid by their brokers, and eventually be ordered to pay twice, i.e. they might also end up paying the carriers for the same freight charges that were already paid to the brokers.
To ensure payment of the carriers in case of payment of the freight charges to a broker, and avoid paying the freight charges twice, considerations include: (i) the alternative adopted by Ontario law: requesting that the amount received as payment of the freight charges be maintained in a trust account for payment of carriers; and (ii) requesting a quittance from a carrier upon payment to the broker.
McCarthy Tétrault LLP - Pierre-Olivier Ménard Dumas and Anne-Marie Dupont
 
Here's a 2015 article by Quebec transportatation lawyer Pierre-Olivier Ménard Dumas

As shippers, Canadian retailers and manufacturers should be aware of potential liabilities related to payment of freight charges. The transportation of a product commonly involves several stakeholders: freight forwarders or brokers and multiple carriers. Who should then be paid?

In the province of Quebec, the shipper is discharged by paying one of the carriers. The outstanding carriers must then address their claims to the paid carrier. However, payment of the freight charges directly to a broker does not generally discharge a shipper of its liability to the carriers.

Where a shipper can get involved in a dispute over the payment of freight charges is when brokers, voluntarily or unknowingly, act as carriers, even though they in fact do not operate any commercial motor vehicles. The shipper may, in this case, be discharged by the payment to the broker, acting as carrier, but other carriers, if any, may of course dispute the qualification of the broker as such. To determine if a broker acted as a carrier, contracts and other arrangements will be scrutinized, as well as exchanges (via e-mail, telephone or other means), the freight charges, the invoice and prior and further arrangements between the parties. It could be difficult to assert that a broker acted in that role only (and not as a carrier) in circumstances in which it has designated itself as the carrier on a bill of lading.

It may also be a challenge to determine if the parties to a transportation contract agreed that the freight charges would be discharged by their payment to the broker, or if the carrier acted in a manner that would suggest that the broker had the mandate to receive the payment. In such cases, if the parties agreed or acted in a manner suggesting that the broker was entitled to receive the payment of the freight charges, the shippers will be discharged by the payment of the freight charges to the broker.

Otherwise, shippers that paid their brokers rather than the carriers may face lawsuits from carriers that have not been paid by their brokers, and eventually be ordered to pay twice, i.e. they might also end up paying the carriers for the same freight charges that were already paid to the brokers.
To ensure payment of the carriers in case of payment of the freight charges to a broker, and avoid paying the freight charges twice, considerations include: (i) the alternative adopted by Ontario law: requesting that the amount received as payment of the freight charges be maintained in a trust account for payment of carriers; and (ii) requesting a quittance from a carrier upon payment to the broker.
McCarthy Tétrault LLP - Pierre-Olivier Ménard Dumas and Anne-Marie Dupont
Thank you @SCAM CHASER looking forward to work with you in near future.
 
Here's a 2015 article by Quebec transportatation lawyer Pierre-Olivier Ménard Dumas

As shippers, Canadian retailers and manufacturers should be aware of potential liabilities related to payment of freight charges. The transportation of a product commonly involves several stakeholders: freight forwarders or brokers and multiple carriers. Who should then be paid?

In the province of Quebec, the shipper is discharged by paying one of the carriers. The outstanding carriers must then address their claims to the paid carrier. However, payment of the freight charges directly to a broker does not generally discharge a shipper of its liability to the carriers.

Where a shipper can get involved in a dispute over the payment of freight charges is when brokers, voluntarily or unknowingly, act as carriers, even though they in fact do not operate any commercial motor vehicles. The shipper may, in this case, be discharged by the payment to the broker, acting as carrier, but other carriers, if any, may of course dispute the qualification of the broker as such. To determine if a broker acted as a carrier, contracts and other arrangements will be scrutinized, as well as exchanges (via e-mail, telephone or other means), the freight charges, the invoice and prior and further arrangements between the parties. It could be difficult to assert that a broker acted in that role only (and not as a carrier) in circumstances in which it has designated itself as the carrier on a bill of lading.

It may also be a challenge to determine if the parties to a transportation contract agreed that the freight charges would be discharged by their payment to the broker, or if the carrier acted in a manner that would suggest that the broker had the mandate to receive the payment. In such cases, if the parties agreed or acted in a manner suggesting that the broker was entitled to receive the payment of the freight charges, the shippers will be discharged by the payment of the freight charges to the broker.

Otherwise, shippers that paid their brokers rather than the carriers may face lawsuits from carriers that have not been paid by their brokers, and eventually be ordered to pay twice, i.e. they might also end up paying the carriers for the same freight charges that were already paid to the brokers.
To ensure payment of the carriers in case of payment of the freight charges to a broker, and avoid paying the freight charges twice, considerations include: (i) the alternative adopted by Ontario law: requesting that the amount received as payment of the freight charges be maintained in a trust account for payment of carriers; and (ii) requesting a quittance from a carrier upon payment to the broker.
McCarthy Tétrault LLP - Pierre-Olivier Ménard Dumas and Anne-Marie Dupont
I know this lawyer personally having work with him in the past. One of the best for transportation laws.