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[tasuinam]

@Capner ... honestly, I am not singling you out specifically, or poking fun at just you. It's just that you happened to make the statement, and I have chosen to respond to it.

Your thought process is incorrect. "You", or any other third party, cannot initiate a claim with a motor carrier's insurance carrier without consent of the motor carrier. Furthermore, if the motor carrier chooses to initiate a claim, the first question the insurance carrier is going to ask the motor carrier is "Has your invoice for transportation been paid?". If the motor carrier replies in the negative, everything on the claim stops, and if nothing progresses within 9 months, the claim dies on the vine right then and there, and "you" have no recourse once that happens.

It absolutely amazes me that people just think "Oh, I can just make a claim against someone's insurance.". You cannot do that. Someone else's insurance policy is not a public bank account that anyone can make a withdrawal from if they "feel" they have been wronged.
Furthermore, you may think you have a claim, but in reality you do not. In fact I would hazard a guess that better than half the people on this forum don't even know what the legal limitations are on how much they can claim, or even if they have a viable claim for that matter.

There are time, and court, tested rules and regulations that govern the world of cargo claims.

agreed - we had a company pay our invoice - but withold 20K (we have ongoing business with them - this we protested everyday) - AND open an insurance claim ... so they covered all their bases. The insurance claim was approved - but they had to provide pics of the damage. Was complicated as we were not at fault and our insurance had to deal with the company that was at fault.... very convulated ...

 

[PackRat]

agreed - we had a company pay our invoice - but withold 20K (we have ongoing business with them - this we protested everyday) - AND open an insurance claim ... so they covered all their bases. The insurance claim was approved - but they had to provide pics of the damage. Was complicated as we were not at fault and our insurance had to deal with the company that was at fault.... very convulated ...

That is illegal as well tasuinam....Mr. Ludwig will respond to this I'm sure as he has one of the best understandings of the claim process on this forum. (yes...lots of others do to!!) You can't hold back the invoice for the claimed shipment let alone other invoices not involved........ The only reason that happened/is happening is your company allowed it to happen

 

[Capner]

@Capner ... honestly, I am not singling you out specifically, or poking fun at just you. It's just that you happened to make the statement, and I have chosen to respond to it.

Your thought process is incorrect. "You", or any other third party, cannot initiate a claim with a motor carrier's insurance carrier without consent of the motor carrier. Furthermore, if the motor carrier chooses to initiate a claim, the first question the insurance carrier is going to ask the motor carrier is "Has your invoice for transportation been paid?". If the motor carrier replies in the negative, everything on the claim stops, and if nothing progresses within 9 months, the claim dies on the vine right then and there, and "you" have no recourse once that happens.

It absolutely amazes me that people just think "Oh, I can just make a claim against someone's insurance.". You cannot do that. Someone else's insurance policy is not a public bank account that anyone can make a withdrawal from if they "feel" they have been wronged.
Furthermore, you may think you have a claim, but in reality you do not. In fact I would hazard a guess that better than half the people on this forum don't even know what the legal limitations are on how much they can claim, or even if they have a viable claim for that matter.

There are time, and court, tested rules and regulations that govern the world of cargo claims.

Poking fun at me... only the girls do that....but that's another story.

I appreciate the rebuttal. So you are aware, I value a good back and forth. Makes us, and all that read these posts, think. In turn, it makes us, as a community, stronger .

I will agree with everything you said. My comment was "copy" in the insurance company so they are aware. I perhaps should have clarified and said insurance/broker. I have done this prior which has helped progress claims with the carrier. It was not my intention nor did I say file a claim with insurance. A reputable carrier will always live up to their shortfalls. You do, I do, as do most, but many have experienced those that dick around to find a way out.

I would hope (it may be a long shot) all carriers know when its time to pass a claim off to insurance and or handle it in house.

The best result is... do a good job so you don't get a claim. Secondly, if you get one, get all the info, make sure it is a legitimate claim and find a solution. More importantly, as a carrier, learn from it and takes steps so it is not an ongoing issue.

We all have our take on the best approach. In recent times, as the industry changes, we ask questions of our peers, other industries, and ourselves, all in an effort to protect our companies and its interests.

Crap happens. We deal with it, learn and move forward. After 30 + years in this business...I keep telling myself that because... tomorrow's going to be a great day.

 

[Fr8Guru]

That is illegal as well tasuinam....Mr. Ludwig will respond to this I'm sure as he has one of the best understandings of the claim process on this forum. (yes...lots of others do to!!) You can't hold back the invoice for the claimed shipment let alone other invoices not involved........ The only reason that happened/is happening is your company allowed it to happen

Holding invoices is industry standard for some reason but yes, it is very illegal.

A lot of broker contracts has terms written into them that "allow" them to hold invoices to recoup potential damages but they don't hold up as the BOL act supersedes them all.

 

[tasuinam]

That is illegal as well tasuinam....Mr. Ludwig will respond to this I'm sure as he has one of the best understandings of the claim process on this forum. (yes...lots of others do to!!) You can't hold back the invoice for the claimed shipment let alone other invoices not involved........ The only reason that happened/is happening is your company allowed it to happen

we got the hold back released - but they held it for a week - trying to cover bases... it was a struggle and I learned a lot from that interaction.
Yes it was not best practice to hold back and once we had the 'power' of our insurance company and my friend who helped with legal sounding language (he is a crown attorney) we got them to release the hold and admit it was not an accepted practice

 

[Michael Ludwig]

Cargo claims mitigation is a minefield. Carriers absolutely need to know what they are doing with them else they will end up paying through the nose for something they did not do, are not responsible for, or agree to an unjust claim amount out of ignorance.
Remember, a carrier's only obligation vis-a-vis the movement of freight is to dispatch with due diligence. Everything else is a potential cargo claim.

That is illegal as well tasuinam....Mr. Ludwig will respond to this I'm sure as he has one of the best understandings of the claim process on this forum. (yes...lots of others do to!!) You can't hold back the invoice for the claimed shipment let alone other invoices not involved........ The only reason that happened/is happening is your company allowed it to happen

From a cargo claims perspective, as long as the shipper can show proof that the transportation invoice for the claimed cargo has been paid, any other withheld monies are irrelevant to the claims case.
Where other withheld monies come into play is usually the result of a carrier blindly signing a broker's contract.
Something I find hilarious is load broker contracts that are like 10+ pages long. As some of you may, or may not, know, some of my in-house customer list reads like the who's who of the Fortune 25. Their carrier contracts are seldom more than a page long, and if they are more than one page, it's two pages. A good habit to get into when you are presented with new-to-you load broker contracts that are several pages long and written in legalese, is to send them to your insurance broker/carrier for their legal team to revue. Quite often it is free of charge, and you will find claims and indemnification clauses in them that your insurance company will not support under any circumstances. Signing those contracts puts your company at tremendous risk if something goes south. i.e. you pay the full retail price for damaged products, or cost plus profit margin, or you cannot salvage the goods, or you can only salvage the goods under certain circumstances, etc. Indemnification clauses are usually worse, but that is a topic for another day.

 

[loaders]

There is a distinct difference between initiating a claims investigation and settling a claim. The payment of the freight bill only pertains to the latter, It is the carriers responsibility, once notified in writing of a claim, to begin an investigation into the matter. Settlement of the claim will not be completed until the freight bill is paid.