CTA, Teamsters and carriers take Driver Inc. fight to Parliament Hill

They are Super Hero's sticking up for the Goverment to ensure they get all their tax dollars! They are also the savior of the Trucking industry! Yes this is the biggest issues in trucking we have to deal with. Go to the Goverment and get cheaper Insurance or cheaper fuel! Oh thats right they are big trucking and already get that!
 
The scourge of Driver Inc affects all carriers, big and small. The fact that the OTA and CTA are speaking out about it will hopefully benefit all carriers. If you are paying source deductions, health taxes, EI, etc, etc, you are at a distinct disadvantage compared to those firms who have adopted the Driver Inc model. Large trucking firms who play by the rules are not, or should not be regarded as your enemy. Those who choose not to play by the rules are the real villains here, regardless if they are large or small carriers.
 
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The problem I find is Owner Operator versus Driver Inc. Drivers Inc you don't own a truck but can work for more than one company if you want. Owner Operators if licensed and Insured under one company can only work for one that company with the truck they have. If they go work for someone else without their truck are they not Drivers Inc also. The Grey Area in all of this is what I find to be the issue. Big Trucking has for years encouraged drivers to become owner operators ( alot on the never never plan). Is this not being done to avoid all the pay source deductions. The problem I find with the OTA and CTA is look who runs them! Everything is always level playing field. Since when has competition in business been a level playing field?
Loaders you always make a good point but I feel that all businesses big and small have and will forever work in the grey area when dealing with Goverment rules that are not perfectly clear.
 
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Mario said:
The problem I find is Owner Operator versus Driver Inc. Drivers Inc you don't own a truck but can work for more than one company if you want. Owner Operators if licensed and Insured under one company can only work for one that company with the truck they have. If they go work for someone else without their truck are they not Drivers Inc also. The Grey Area in all of this is what I find to be the issue. Big Trucking has for years encouraged drivers to become owner operators ( alot on the never never plan). Is this not being done to avoid all the pay source deductions. The problem I find with the OTA and CTA is look who runs them! Everything is always level playing field. Since when has competition in business been a level playing field?
Loaders you always make a good point but I feel that all businesses big and small have and will forever work in the grey area when dealing with Goverment rules that are not perfectly clear.
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exactly. all of this is perfectly legal.
 
YAWN..................................................................
Driver inc trucking companies are exploiting drivers....ok take those drivers and put them under the payroll program and stop crying FFS
 
Mr Robert should be going after all the Scumbag brokers in quebec that dont pay at all!! let alone paying taxes!!!! but our biggest problem is DRIVER INC....JOKE
 
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I have to say I am surprised that there appears to be carriers out there, on this site, who are unconcerned about the effect that the Drivers Inc model has on not only rates, but the industry in general, to say nothing about the loss of tax revenue that could be used for the benefit of all Canadians. Makes one wonder if these same folks are perhaps dabbling in the same cost cutting scheme?
 
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loaders said:
I have to say I am surprised that there appears to be carriers out there, on this site, who are unconcerned about the effect that the Drivers Inc model has on not only rates, but the industry in general, to say nothing about the loss of tax revenue that could be used for the benefit of all Canadians. Makes one wonder if these same folks are perhaps dabbling in the same cost cutting scheme?
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Most of the carriers that are complaining have their brokerages set up to funnel freight to these Driver Inc companies, i guess they leave morals in their asset side when they enter their brokerage, they should all make a pledge tomorrow that they will not give any freight to companies operating Driver inc model( are they ready for that)
they should advertise to Driver inc drivers and hire these drivers on payroll because they want the best for these drivers,
and just an FYI most of these corporations have big accounting firms hired just so they can pay less taxes.
I would cancel most of the Driver Inc company CVORS tomorrow on safety concerns you don't even need to catch them on Driver inc.
I am more concerned about these guys running Bad equipment, Drug hauling, lack of safety training, opening new companies every other day, setting up nova scotia companies to save insurance.
 
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Mario said:
Loaders you always make a good point but I feel that all businesses big and small have and will forever work in the grey area when dealing with Government rules that are not perfectly clear.
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The gray area is the problem. All we need is for the issue to be defined, turned to black and white and then enforced. Once that happens everyone will be on the level playing field again. It doesn't matter which way they decide to go but pick one and go with it.

This is what I see, let me know if I missed something. (Amounts based on Ontario numbers).

DRIVER INC - individualPAYROLL DRIVER - individual
Pays no CPP or EI. Will have to pay double the CPP at tax time.Pays CPP and EI at source but also is eligible to get it should he/she needs it.
Does not receive Vacation pay, stat holiday pay or sick pay.Receives Vacation pay, stat holiday and sick pay. (4% of gross, 9 stat holidays and 10 sick days based on daily averages over past 4 weeks)
Does not receive WSIB. Must get coverage someplace else.Covered under WSIB should injury occur. (depends on injury)
May be able to write off some expenses and home expenses.Receives tax credits for meals on the road plus use of cell phone if employer fills out the form.

In summary,
Driver IncPayroll EmployeeCompany
CPP / EI$7,508.90 at tax time4,756.90 deducted from pay$5,157.88 company portion of CPP/EI
TaxNone taken at source but due at tax time12,521 from sourcenone
WSIBpays nothing receives nothing.0 deducted$3,100
Benefitspays nothing receives nothing.depends on employer but most are zero.$7,800 / yr for good benefits
EHTpays nothing0 deductedPays after 1 million of wages.
Vacation pay - 4%none.2,8002,800
Stat pay, sick pay.none.20 days at $200 = 4,000 at least$4000
April tax timedepends if they report properly but assuming they do it will be about $20,000 less any creditsprobably nothing and maybe get some back based on meal creditswill pay less taxes than if they go Driver Inc. because of additional write offs.
pays 7,508.90receives 2,043.1022,857.88

Assumptions:
70k gross pay per employee
WSIB 4.57/100 of wages
EHT is $0 on first 1million 1.95% thereafter


The upside is definitely for the company to save 20-24k per driver depending on benefits if they offer them but may come with a tax implication. I don't know why anyone would want to be on Driver Inc unless they intend not to report their earnings at tax time; even then the payroll employee makes more than what is deducted if the rates are the same. Tax time is when Driver Inc will realize that they are in trouble. All the Feds need to do is enforce people receiving Driver Inc payments to complete their taxes.

Basically the company running one DRIVER INC truck can lower the cost for the freight they haul by 20 - 22k per year or 440 per week and still make the same money as the carrier with an employee.
 
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To a company source deductions are a write off, Government should stop Driver Inc tonight, this problem has gone to the very core of trucking, and it’s not just a one community problem it’s all over now, no one will stop first in fear of losing drivers, there should be a public announcement that driver inc will stop on this date and anyone caught doing that will fined heavily and their taxes would be held and not paid- It will stop, drivers will have more rights and companies can breathe and run without fears of being called unsavoury things, But the government needs to have the will power to do it. Unfortunately we have politics over moral fight here.
Why do these companies pay IFTA, Plate taxes and not source deductions, it will be just another tax that they need to pay, They will have to pay and will get their models used to that but why isn’t the government doing it?
 
It is a sad sign of the times when the government is tasked with the job of telling people what the “right” thing to do is. No question, more enforcement is needed to solve this problem. I can’t help but think that in the old days, most people just seemed to know, or were taught what it took to be a responsible, law abiding operator., Today however, there appears to be a culture of continually looking for shortcuts, actively avoiding paying your share of taxes and placing your employees at a disadvantage strictly for your benefit. There is nothing wrong with being creative, innovative and efficient, however this process of using your employees as pawns in a tax evasion scheme to lower your overhead and cheating the government, which is you and me, isn’t any of those things.
 
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CDNFLATBED said:
To a company source deductions are a write off,
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I really hate this statement. So many people just sum up that what a company has to pay is a write off. Companies do not want write offs. Too many write offs just mean you lose money - who wants to do that?
Sorry, but every time I hear this statement it sets me off.

Yes, as a company who chooses to avoid DRIVER INC., I am frustrated that I have to spend more money to do things properly instead of taking the grey area and hope I don't get audited. More enforcement of all laws will level out the playing field. That is what laws are for. In fact, hire me and I'll have a methodology to identify all trucking companies who are not paying their employees properly. It's fairly simple, if your year end return has fuel expense, your gross wages will be very close to that number. If your PD7 returns do not represent the fraction of that number you're up next for an audit.

The construction industry has battled with this exact scenario for decades. A guy shows up with a hammer and he is all of a sudden an independent contractor who gets paid as Contractor Inc. They have found ways to thwart that in the construction industry, why can they not do it here.
 
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Jim L said:
I really hate this statement. So many people just sum up that what a company has to pay is a write off. Companies do not want write offs. Too many write offs just mean you lose money - who wants to do that?
Sorry, but every time I hear this statement it sets me off.

Yes, as a company who chooses to avoid DRIVER INC., I am frustrated that I have to spend more money to do things properly instead of taking the grey area and hope I don't get audited. More enforcement of all laws will level out the playing field. That is what laws are for. In fact, hire me and I'll have a methodology to identify all trucking companies who are not paying their employees properly. It's fairly simple, if your year end return has fuel expense, your gross wages will be very close to that number. If your PD7 returns do not represent the fraction of that number you're up next for an audit.

The construction industry has battled with this exact scenario for decades. A guy shows up with a hammer and he is all of a sudden an independent contractor who gets paid as Contractor Inc. They have found ways to thwart that in the construction industry, why can they not do it here.
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We do not put a gun to driver's head and kidnap them to come to work everyday!!! make a case to the drivers and get them to work for you, but until that happens how about a pledge from all the complaining members here that they will not do business with DRIVER INC MODEL companies (who is ready)?????????????.
Ignore all the problems that exist but lets go after the working man!! dont forget you didnt complain when most of the country was hiding under their desks at home waiting for their toilet papers to arrive, DRIVE inc companies kept working and this country going.
 
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Always wondered why the same amount of discussion from the OTA is not coming about a failing MELT system for driver training, that the goverment has admitted to not having staff to monitor every school?
With the driver shortage no one will hinder anyone getting their license ( SAFETY OPTIONAL). Crisis. Unsavory. Atrocity. Scam
These words should be used for describing people who only use their influence to try and make change for only the betterment of them and the company they work for.
If Grey areas would be illegal then there would be no business. I don't care if you are the richest or poorest business owner, if the Goverment is so in efficient in creating policy that they cannot cover the grey area's ( I DONT KNOW WHY NOT ITS OUR MONEY THEY PAY PEOPLE WITH TO DO THIS) then it is not Illegal and they would be auditing no one. Also do we really believe that all Drivers Inc. people dont pay taxes!
 
i dont get how the main reason some people are upset is that because driver inc. carriers are paying less taxes it affects every carrier across the board and those taxes cant go to the government which can go back to the industry. Were talking about the same government that doesn't give a crap about the trucking industry as identified by last year? The government needs to change up not the industry.
 
Well now that I've gotten out from under my desk and thanked those great Driver Inc companies that helped me avoid wiping my ass with my hand for years....

If you don't think this is a problem - you are part of the problem.
 
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I think the following are problems :

Driver Inc
Fuel Prices
Carbon Tax
Insurance
MTO
Price of trucks
Price of trailers
Taxes
Employee training
Employee retention
Cheap rates
Load Link
The Border
Double Brokering
Non Paying Freight Brokers
Non Paying Carriers
Vehicle Maintenance


Hello All please help as I know I have forgotten alot of other stuff
 
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