carrier confirmations / work orders

Parisite

Parisite

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Jun 17, 2008
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Lately we've had several cases of carriers using our work order/carrier confirmations as delivery slips. I'm not sure why truckers would wish to share this info (esp. pricing) with our client. It could be an honest mistake.

I'm not mentioning any names but has happened at least 3 times in the past month that I've had to go to clients for POD cause driver "wasn't given a copy" and my clients have sent me our work order.
 
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Accidents happen - but after that many times - looks like somone's looking for a customer of their own.
 
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Maybe you need to tighten up your processes a bit...make sure the carrier knows EXACTLY what documents need to be signed in order for them to get paid. In most cases I need the bill of lading signed off by the receiver...a hen scratch on a load confirmation means about as much as a blank square of TP... If the carrier stalls call them and tell them the receiver states they never got their load and that you're putting in a claim to their insurance. That will get things moving..trust me..
 
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And of course the issue of liability - If something happens with the load(s), i.e. damages, accident en route, missing freight. Without a BOL who would be liable under the act? So, yes it should be very clear that only the shippers BOL will be accepted as proof of delivery and that the issuer of the carrier confirmation will not be held liable in the event there is an occurance. The issuer should note themselves as "agent" and not "principle".
 
?

It sounds like you are getting what you paid for in a carrier if they cannot handle the standerd process of getting the shippers bill of lading signed...

Freight Broker: I see why this is your name and not "trucking company" with your threatening attitude towards carriers insurance. That is like a carrier holding a load for payment which we here everyone complain about on here...

As mentioned maybe consider the carriers you are working with to avoid these not so common issues; relationships between carrier and brokers is what creates success for everyone here... this industry is getting worse and worse in all aspects of the business it seems; freight brokers screwed by carriers, carriers screwed by freight brokers... it has become a cover your ass world and nobody is willing to take any responsibility themselves...

In regards to original bill of lading being signed; 3 times last week we picked up shipments for brokers with no bill of lading at thier shipper. Perhaps this may be part of your issue?
 
GSTRUCKS

Agreed, there is WAY too much focus on the fine print and not enough on the business relationship. I'm finding that the fine print is a must early on in a carrier/broker relationship. Then after some trust is earned, the fine print becomes trivial.

How does a driver leave a shipper without a BOL? I assume one was created on the fly BEFORE the truck left the shipping location?

Keep well,

Mike
 
As a carrier - going on the direction of a broker's confirmation - our drivers go to pick up - and often the shipper has no bill or paperwork. Many shippers are not familiar with "bills of lading"....nor do they know of the importance of noting all their shipment details on a bill (assuming they have one). So our driver will use our "in house" bill of lading - fill it out - have the shipper sign - and off he goes. This bill goes with the shipment - to the destination - and consignee signs it. This now becomes the POD and is sent with our invoice.

The receivable is now overdue and I make my call. I hear from the broker "we need the original shipper's bill of lading" for payment. My reply to this comment is always the same - "our driver had to use our bill because your customer wasn't prepared or had a bill of their own to use. Good thing our driver had a bill with him which avoided delays. If you use our services again for this same shipper - advise your customer of the importance of a shipper's bill. If they don't have the means to make one up - do one for them as a courtesy - they're your customer - keep them happy. Then they'll have a bill ready for their next pickup and our driver can sign on that copy - problem solved."

Brokers will make any excuse to delay payment - having a shipper's bill is an "oldie but a goodie" fall back tactic. And in many cases the broker knows full well that "Jessica's Gift Shop" likely won't have a shippers's bill done up and ready for the driver.

We've made up bills of lading for customers before - templates with all their information they can use for shipments. This takes no time at all and they are quite appreciative for the assistance.

It is not up to the carrier and their driver to do this - the broker needs to relay key information to their customer and ensure they are prepared with documentation.
 
Well put.
If brokers are selling their services as above and beyond what any one carrier can provide, perhaps the Bill of Lading should be sent to the shipper BY THE BROKER.
All load confirmations say "Identify yourself as XXX truck", yet we have to do bills of lading, which will be on OUR letterhead.
There are far too many times where customs broker information, load count, load description, dimensions, etc are inaccurate, and the carrier makes adjustments to make it work. I'm not bitching, because good Brokers make up for it in either $$ or other ways, but it is a reality. The carrier is generally always the "dock bumper", getting squished.
When a broker requires a notarized, triple signed, witnessed document for POD...well, they have never been to a loading dock have they?
 
GSTRUCKS said:
It sounds like you are getting what you paid for in a carrier if they cannot handle the standerd process of getting the shippers bill of lading signed...

Freight Broker: I see why this is your name and not "trucking company" with your threatening attitude towards carriers insurance. That is like a carrier holding a load for payment which we here everyone complain about on here...

As mentioned maybe consider the carriers you are working with to avoid these not so common issues; relationships between carrier and brokers is what creates success for everyone here... this industry is getting worse and worse in all aspects of the business it seems; freight brokers screwed by carriers, carriers screwed by freight brokers... it has become a cover your ass world and nobody is willing to take any responsibility themselves...

In regards to original bill of lading being signed; 3 times last week we picked up shipments for brokers with no bill of lading at thier shipper. Perhaps this may be part of your issue?
Click to expand...

Not really..I call myself Freight Broker because that's what I am. I don't see anything threatening in what I wrote... I simply stated that the freight broker is responsible for ensuring that the carrier understands what documents need to be submitted for payment. And in the event that the carrier does not comply then take an action that does cause some response. That's not threatening...people moan about slow pays and no pays.. and not getting the right paperwork blah blah...I don't play that game...in this biz you need to be aggressive or you get run over...we see it every day. And the business isn't any worse now than it was 30 years ago..it was dog eat dog then, and its dog eat dog now...
 
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Bill of lading

In response to parasite,

Did all three loads originate from the same shipper? If so, that shipper has a lot of trust in sending out freight without having a signed copy of the bill of lading. What proof does the shipper have that the freight was even picked up? Secondly - what if there is a discrepancy in the quantity, how could they ever trace it?

On the carriers part, any driver that runs around without proper documentation is subjecting his company to undue risk and should be reprimanded. What if there was a declared value and there is a claim? What if there is a routine DOT inspection and there is no B/L for the goods in question, there will certainly be a fine.

These are pretty well the basics of transport, they are as important as a routine safety check.

As for freight brokers comment, I see his philosophy and to each his own. But the industry has changed tremendously in the last 20 years and more so in the last decade.

With internet marketing, the gap between the rich (freight brokers) and the poor (Carriers) is widening. The brokers simply have more time to invest in ways to convince their clients that the rates have to go up and how to canvass even larger areas for new prospective clients.

Carriers are too busy - trying to find places to cut costs so that they can put more expensive fuel in their trucks and finance the ever expanding demands of the multiple government agencies putting their fat fingers in the pie.
 
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Good morning Alx,

I find your additions to the the board clear, concise and helpful. However....LOL...on this one thread I think you may be not thinking hard enough. I will para-phrase a bit, but you are basically saying that brokers can invest in their companies while carriers can't. I DEFINITELY understand what you are saying about the differences in costings for each entity and how it relates to profitability, but I feel you are selling the carriers short. Every carrier has the same ability to grow their business just like brokers, it just comes down to those that choose to and those that do not. I don't know of one single carrier that CAN'T sell the same way a broker can if they choose to. My two cents on the subject. :) keep smiling :)
 
Pack rat

I completely agree with you!!!

I was being a bit cynical that is all.

It all comes down to funding and time management. One has to allocate the resources as well as the time in order to scout out new clients.

This is inherent with the the 3PL and somewhat foreign to the Carrier. Unfortunately, over the last 2 years we seem to spend an inordinate amount of time putting out fires!

Hence , why we rely on our 3PL friends to help fill our trucks.
 
alx said:
I completely agree with you!!!

I was being a bit cynical that is all.

It all comes down to funding and time management. One has to allocate the resources as well as the time in order to scout out new clients.

This is inherent with the the 3PL and somewhat foreign to the Carrier. Unfortunately, over the last 2 years we seem to spend an inordinate amount of time putting out fires!

Hence , why we rely on our 3PL friends to help fill our trucks.
Click to expand...

I understand!! may your hose be long and your fires small :)
 
This (in my opinion) boils down to laziness.

I've given a driver a copy of a carrier confirmation before (with the prices covered up) when sending him for a pick up... because I'm too lazy to transpose it onto one of our call cards in dispatch.

The driver once returned with that same copy only with a shippers signature on it... because the shipper is too lazy to complete a proper bill of lading. The driver shruggs his shoulders and says "The guy said this was OK". I've also had shippers ask if I can fill out a bill of lading for them. I said no... because I don't know exactly what they're shipping / declared value / weight etc.

We actually had to put a policy in place at the next drivers meeting... that drivers do not move without a proper bill of lading. And if their not sure... they're to call.

Everyone wants everyone else to do their job... and too often these shippers, receivers want the carrier and broker to hold their hands for them. Don't even get me started on LTL appointments, lumpers etc.

A carrier confirmation IS NOT a bill of lading. Shame on the shipper and Carrier for not correcting this at the time it happened.
 
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Parisite said:
Lately we've had several cases of carriers using our work order/carrier confirmations as delivery slips. I'm not sure why truckers would wish to share this info (esp. pricing) with our client. It could be an honest mistake.

I'm not mentioning any names but has happened at least 3 times in the past month that I've had to go to clients for POD cause driver "wasn't given a copy" and my clients have sent me our work order.
Click to expand...

I know that some actually send these confirmations to drivers at truckstops waiting for pick and drop information instead of sitting there and reading information out on the phone and especially if they don't have satellite dispatch. I think some drivers don't understand that a carrier confirmation isn't a shipping document and maybe some dispatchers don't do enough to make that clear. It's never going to be 100% goober-proof for any carrier as I see it. Even the drivers that do get a proper BOL get conflicting information about where they should deliver. They've been trained to go by the BOL but the customer instructions on a confirmation is also said to be where the broker's client wants the goods to go too. If a driver is smart and sees the conflicting information, that's the time to check with the broker and avoid unnecessary redirects.
 
Something you are all missing ...

When it comes to transporting the property of others for compensation, you darn well better have a bill of lading ... it's the law, and there is no way around it.

Suppose your driver gets stopped by the police for speeding and as a matter of course the officer asks to see his bill of lading. Joe Driver doesn't have one. Officer Stadanko asks what's in the trailer and Joe Driver says "I got a whole load of brand new iPhones on board". Have a quick guess at who's taking a trip to the local precinct and is probably going to be charged with possession of stolen property. Bob Dispatcher and Dave Company-Owner are just thankful the Joe Driver hadn't entered the U.S. yet because that would have encured the wrath of the DHS, CBP, FBI, U.S. Marshall Service, U.S. District Attorney's Office, and State Police just to mention the most obvious. They would probably throw in DEA for fun and INS for the pre-requisite rubber glove examinations :eek:

As a matter of company rule, if the shipper does not issue to our drivers a document entitled "Bill of Lading", our drivers are required to issue one of their own. And just to drive the point home ... if they can't produce one, they don't get paid ... prove to me you hauled that load?

If it happens to be one of those loads that instructs us to ID as the load broker's truck, then too bad for the load broker.
 
Excellent point Michael. In fact, a carrier should either cross out the brokers name if it appears in the box on the Bill of Lading titled "carrier", or at least write their name in beside the broker's. On another note, caution should be used when accepting a shippers Bill of Lading. Ensure that it is a "standard" Bill of Lading and not something that the shipper made-up with unrealistic clauses and condtions that could prove troublesome in the event of a claim or other service disruption. To be safe, accept and sign the shipper's B/L if it looks alright, but also, have your driver complete your B/L and have the shipper sign it. This way you're completely covered. A broker that allows themselves to be named as the "carrier" on a B/L is exposing themselves to unnecessary liability in the event of a loss. It can "muddy" the waters if the case ever came before a judge.
 
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