We are all in the same boat, with the way freight is going, but there is just one to many load brokers taking advantage of the current situation, in Ontario. There is a lot of good companies, and Load Brokers out there, but when, these load pimps sell full loads to Tenn. for 800$ or 475$ to Chicago, there really hurting all of use. I was asked the other day to take a flatbed load from Hamilton to Cincinnati Ohio for 600$ (u.s.) from a load broker. Someone tell me what's wrong with this picture.
Bad Rates
- Thread starter GRAVEY
- Start date
30
Remember who they are and punish when times are good - CH is at the top of our list when things turn around and they are desperate it's payback time (we don't take there cheap loads now but they obviously have no ethics so we will hit them). To all the good load brokers thankyou for thinking long term.
30
Just like any other business, if one of your customers (shipper or load broker) is not prepared to pay the rate you determine to be fair and reasonable, DON'T do work for them. I can't speak for all load brokers, but here at my firm, we do not quote a rate to any of our customers without first checking with our carriers to see what that rate should be. The rates we receive from our carriers will change depending on supply and demand throughout the year but the mark-up we put on that rate stays the same. A broker who takes it upon himself to create a freight rate without consulting with a freight supplier is only setting himself up for failure and does a disservice to this industry.
10
Why?
Why do you take the loads? I wish carriers would double all their prices, brokers would be better off! I'd rather make 10% of $2000 than 10% of $1000.
When you take loads for below market price you only encourge a downward pricing trend. Not only that, but you're giving them the ablility to steal my customers by undercutting the rates. Then I have no choice but to offer the same prices they do. STOP don't take the load. Hold firm on your pricing.
Why are they able to move the freight this cheaply in the first place? Is it not your fellow carriers who are undercutting your prices?
If you could buy fuel for 25% less from another vendor would you not do it? Why should the vendor selling it for 25% more be mad at you? You have made a smart business decision.
While I don't agree with CH's business phylosophy, I can certainly understand it. They're not pimps, they're doing what is in the interest of their customers and shareholders. Carriers should do the same by holding fast on their rates and refusing to take loads at below market value.
PS - You don't hear me complaining when I have to pay $2200 for a heat and haz load from Chicago to Toronto at 4:30 on a friday afternoon! I get that that's the market price.
Why do you take the loads? I wish carriers would double all their prices, brokers would be better off! I'd rather make 10% of $2000 than 10% of $1000.
When you take loads for below market price you only encourge a downward pricing trend. Not only that, but you're giving them the ablility to steal my customers by undercutting the rates. Then I have no choice but to offer the same prices they do. STOP don't take the load. Hold firm on your pricing.
Why are they able to move the freight this cheaply in the first place? Is it not your fellow carriers who are undercutting your prices?
If you could buy fuel for 25% less from another vendor would you not do it? Why should the vendor selling it for 25% more be mad at you? You have made a smart business decision.
While I don't agree with CH's business phylosophy, I can certainly understand it. They're not pimps, they're doing what is in the interest of their customers and shareholders. Carriers should do the same by holding fast on their rates and refusing to take loads at below market value.
PS - You don't hear me complaining when I have to pay $2200 for a heat and haz load from Chicago to Toronto at 4:30 on a friday afternoon! I get that that's the market price.
10
If carriers doubled their rates brokers would be in our clients faster that jack to cut them down. There are many differences between asset and non-asset based company's including substantial monthly equipment payments. Whether they are generating revenue or not. Load Broker liabilities are limited to the volume of revenue they generate. Also keep in mind asset based carriers are not playing on a level field. Thousands of trucks remain on Ontario highways without a legitimate CVOR. It is these carriers certainly not to be considered as (my fellow carriers) that are screwing the industry up. It also appears that these same fly by night operators are favourites for brokers looking to make a quick buck. Legitimate carriers are owned by proud, honourable people focussed on providing quality service for a reasonable ROI they are certainly not in it to make a quick buck! I would wager there is not a broker out here that at one time or another has not booked a cheap load and asked a carrier for a favour. I really wish it was as easy as just saying No!
10
I agree with you
The industry is screwed up. David Bradly please help fix it! I just get frustrated when all the ills of the industry are blamed on brokers. Just like there are unscrupulous carriers out there who double broker, back solicit, scam, don't pay, etc. There are bad brokers too, I admit it. However, you can't paint the whole industry by using a few bad apples as an example.
I refuse to use those cheap guys. It puts my customer's freight at risk of theft, I risk losing my customer to back solicitation, I once even had a guy pick up a load and then hold it ransom for cash and then failed to deliver it. That was my fault for not properly checking his paperwork, but I know you get what you pay for.
I guarantee you when you refuse to move a load for $500 from a cheap broker from Toronto to Chicago, he'll have to tell his customer he can't find a truck, then they'll call me who's price is much higher and I can pay you a decent buck. Please, keep your prices high!
The industry is screwed up. David Bradly please help fix it! I just get frustrated when all the ills of the industry are blamed on brokers. Just like there are unscrupulous carriers out there who double broker, back solicit, scam, don't pay, etc. There are bad brokers too, I admit it. However, you can't paint the whole industry by using a few bad apples as an example.
I refuse to use those cheap guys. It puts my customer's freight at risk of theft, I risk losing my customer to back solicitation, I once even had a guy pick up a load and then hold it ransom for cash and then failed to deliver it. That was my fault for not properly checking his paperwork, but I know you get what you pay for.
I guarantee you when you refuse to move a load for $500 from a cheap broker from Toronto to Chicago, he'll have to tell his customer he can't find a truck, then they'll call me who's price is much higher and I can pay you a decent buck. Please, keep your prices high!
Some need to see big picture
Interesting reading. The problems that are facing the transport industry today are pretty much the same as the rest of the business world. It's called capitalism......Economics 101...supply and demand. good people, bad people, scammers, crooks, good truckers/brokers ethical non ethical...all part of the system. live with it, and be smart about it!
It's a cycle...
rates are low right now because freight volumes down too many trucks on the road to support all. some hagging on and desperate to keep things rolling untill the next month...if at all possible. hence so many bankruptcies and problems.
now flip side.....
Volumes go up not enough trucks to keep up... rates go up!....at this point, many getting so many calls telling themselves...oh I wish I had more trucks on the road..I could make so much more money...so they go out and buy more equipment...and so do many others, and make alot of money for awhile ....then freight volumes go down...and you no longer have the volumes to support bigger operations anymore..all of a sudden you now are having financial problems due to parked trucks, payments, overhead ect ect..hmm time for cutbacks, layoffs, selling off equipment..you get the picture.
HENCE.........the cycle continiues.
capitalism.....the need, want and greed to make more....it's our way only the smart and wise survive...and for those who don't.....start over and try again, maybe you will be smarter and survive the next round.
you want fair? why not try a communist country ...lol
just food for thought
Interesting reading. The problems that are facing the transport industry today are pretty much the same as the rest of the business world. It's called capitalism......Economics 101...supply and demand. good people, bad people, scammers, crooks, good truckers/brokers ethical non ethical...all part of the system. live with it, and be smart about it!
It's a cycle...
rates are low right now because freight volumes down too many trucks on the road to support all. some hagging on and desperate to keep things rolling untill the next month...if at all possible. hence so many bankruptcies and problems.
now flip side.....
Volumes go up not enough trucks to keep up... rates go up!....at this point, many getting so many calls telling themselves...oh I wish I had more trucks on the road..I could make so much more money...so they go out and buy more equipment...and so do many others, and make alot of money for awhile ....then freight volumes go down...and you no longer have the volumes to support bigger operations anymore..all of a sudden you now are having financial problems due to parked trucks, payments, overhead ect ect..hmm time for cutbacks, layoffs, selling off equipment..you get the picture.
HENCE.........the cycle continiues.
capitalism.....the need, want and greed to make more....it's our way only the smart and wise survive...and for those who don't.....start over and try again, maybe you will be smarter and survive the next round.
you want fair? why not try a communist country ...lol
just food for thought
20
Even though everyone has different ideas about what is going on, everyone is right! Even though we are a carrier - I believe carriers are mostly to blame. Brokers or shippers cannot move cheap freight if there are no carriers to take it.
After I give a rate quote I ask what the highest and lowest quotes were. They usually tell me and our rate tends to come in near the middle somewhere. To me, that means that I am asking a reasonable and fair rate. HOWEVER, most brokers tell me that they prefer to go with the lowest rate possible and that scares me. Only one time did a broker tell me directly that the lowest bidders are automatically thrown out.
I agree that carriers should refuse to haul freight at cheap rates. We refuse the cheap freight even though it kills us sometimes.
BUT there are always 100 other carriers in line that will agree to those ridiculous and, frankly, INSULTING cheap rates. I am not picking on CHR but, as an example of insulting rates, the rate per mile ended up being $1.05 (I forget the lane, but it was under 500 miles). Even MORE pathetic is that the very same load disappeared from the Link in less than a minute!
Out of curiosity, I called CHR and the load was, in fact, gone at the same rate that was posted.
Maybe I am crazy but where is everyone's DIGNITY? If certain carriers agree to be treated like dog crap then all of us are going to be treated that way because it becomes the standard.
THIS IS SO FRUSTRATING.........
After I give a rate quote I ask what the highest and lowest quotes were. They usually tell me and our rate tends to come in near the middle somewhere. To me, that means that I am asking a reasonable and fair rate. HOWEVER, most brokers tell me that they prefer to go with the lowest rate possible and that scares me. Only one time did a broker tell me directly that the lowest bidders are automatically thrown out.
I agree that carriers should refuse to haul freight at cheap rates. We refuse the cheap freight even though it kills us sometimes.
BUT there are always 100 other carriers in line that will agree to those ridiculous and, frankly, INSULTING cheap rates. I am not picking on CHR but, as an example of insulting rates, the rate per mile ended up being $1.05 (I forget the lane, but it was under 500 miles). Even MORE pathetic is that the very same load disappeared from the Link in less than a minute!
Out of curiosity, I called CHR and the load was, in fact, gone at the same rate that was posted.
Maybe I am crazy but where is everyone's DIGNITY? If certain carriers agree to be treated like dog crap then all of us are going to be treated that way because it becomes the standard.
THIS IS SO FRUSTRATING.........
10
One final comment
We have a client that will occassionaly pay us to run empty to ensure the flow of goods is not interupted. If we can reduce this empty run charge by taking a cheap spot load that will reduce the cost to our client then I see nothing wrong with it. No one holds a gun to our head to except cheap rates, our clients are aware we can not always reduce empty run charges but really appreciate it when we can. We ultimately decide whether or not the rate makes financial sense on a per trip basis. This is not to say that we quote cheap rates southbound but in circumstances such as above it is in the best interest of both parties.
Having said that it may be worth a call to our dispatch when you have southbound loads. You never know when a deal may arise.
Let's also keep in mind why the industry was deregulated in the 80's. Without deregulation the odds of any of us being in the transportation business today would be significantly reduced.
We have a client that will occassionaly pay us to run empty to ensure the flow of goods is not interupted. If we can reduce this empty run charge by taking a cheap spot load that will reduce the cost to our client then I see nothing wrong with it. No one holds a gun to our head to except cheap rates, our clients are aware we can not always reduce empty run charges but really appreciate it when we can. We ultimately decide whether or not the rate makes financial sense on a per trip basis. This is not to say that we quote cheap rates southbound but in circumstances such as above it is in the best interest of both parties.
Having said that it may be worth a call to our dispatch when you have southbound loads. You never know when a deal may arise.
Let's also keep in mind why the industry was deregulated in the 80's. Without deregulation the odds of any of us being in the transportation business today would be significantly reduced.