Who is responsible here? Your thoughts.

Who is responsible for damages to product?


  • Total voters
    15
  • Poll closed .

martinwizz

Member
10
Important info: Shipper provided the leveling crate. Moved from Manitoba to Quebec. Full load. Shipper always accepts flat or step decks and shipped successfully in the past.

Might be a fun new column to add on this forum actually!
 

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Igor Galanter

Well-Known Member
20
Well, first thing comes to mind is although all procedure is the same they're different drivers tightening with the different strengths.
Just a thought..
 

martinetav

Well-Known Member
20
I'm thinking that the shipper had a bit of a 'brain fart' if they actually loaded it that way. Did the driver make anyone aware of the way it was loaded?
 

Freight Broker

Well-Known Member
30
Shipper is most responsible followed by the driver and carrier.. these two were directly involved in loading it that way and could have/should have notced that there might be a problem. Broker also responsible as he/she should know the material.. the length of it and from that deduce that it might be loaded that way unless load levelers were clearly specified.. Enough blame to go around on this one..
 

loaders

Site Supporter
30
Was the picture taken at loading or at delivery? Did the leveller collapse during transport, or when the shipment was loaded? It has always been my opinion that the driver, like a ship's captain or airline pilot, is ultimately responsible for what and how things are loaded on his/her conveyance. If there is any question about the safety or integrity of the load, the driver must step up to the plate and make things right before he heads out on the road. If he can't ensure that, the load should sit.
 

martinwizz

Member
10
Picture taken in transit. The fortune leveler was damaged during transit. If you notice carefully, this was actually a rolltite trailer, drop deck 53'. Driver realized something was wrong, then had the idea to open the rolltite to verify what was wrong. Couldnt close the rolltite again because material had shifted and collapsed on sides a bit as well. Once some helpers got involved, shipment looked like this. So yes, it collapsed in transport. Martinetav, no, driver left without complaining to no one. Henry, i can throw more facts if you ask your questions. Igor, youre right about different strengths. The idea here is that shipper states he always loads drop deck that way. crates are always sustaining the ride. Not responsible. Then Trucking company says blame the shipper. Should be packed better. Then receiver does not want to blame its supplier and create friction with them as they need their supplies. Said its carrier's fault. Once it is accepted and on the truck, it is always the trucker to blame. WE always analyze it coldly but it rarely ends in anything different then ok carrier what can you do money wise in order to close this file as there will never be a definite and sole responsible for this mess, and we eat the loss.
 

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martinwizz

Member
10
Shipper is most responsible followed by the driver and carrier.. these two were directly involved in loading it that way and could have/should have notced that there might be a problem. Broker also responsible as he/she should know the material.. the length of it and from that deduce that it might be loaded that way unless load levelers were clearly specified.. Enough blame to go around on this one..
I actually like freight brokers's response despite it includes us in the process. It is a fact that nobody brought up that we should not book without levelers these loads. But when you deal with the receiver there is never an issue and they typically dont call the shipper for too much questions cause they will complain we ask too much questions. (not necessarily on this case)
 

martinwizz

Member
10
Shipper is most responsible followed by the driver and carrier.. these two were directly involved in loading it that way and could have/should have notced that there might be a problem. Broker also responsible as he/she should know the material.. the length of it and from that deduce that it might be loaded that way unless load levelers were clearly specified.. Enough blame to go around on this one..
Freight Broker. lets says there is 5000$ of damages. How would you split everybodys liability into this?
 

Jim L

Well-Known Member
20
Was the picture taken at loading or at delivery? Did the leveller collapse during transport, or when the shipment was loaded? It has always been my opinion that the driver, like a ship's captain or airline pilot, is ultimately responsible for what and how things are loaded on his/her conveyance. If there is any question about the safety or integrity of the load, the driver must step up to the plate and make things right before he heads out on the road. If he can't ensure that, the load should sit.
The two pictures shown below doesn't make sense to me. Where did the skids go that was holding the freight level, in the center of the trailer, in the picture taken en-route (voyage replace.jpg)? Please don't tell me that they fell out and if they did, how did the straps get tight? Then the little crate - which wasn't strapped in either picture, slid to the back - not to mention the loose 2X4's. I am adding a picture with both side by side.

I think the driver knows more than he is letting on.
 

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Freight Broker

Well-Known Member
30
If its longer material and they will take stepdecks I always specify metal load levelers. But I prefer to use flatbeds for this type of stuff and will generally only use steps in a pinch and i know the carrier. Too much at risk. As to your question about who pays for what in the event of a claim.. If the broker erred then there are three responsible parties (shipper/carrier/broker) and the claim should therefore be divded three ways.
 

Jim L

Well-Known Member
20
As to your question about who pays for what in the event of a claim.. If the broker erred then there are three responsible parties (shipper/carrier/broker) and the claim should therefore be divded three ways.
There may be multiple people involved and maybe should be divided 3, or more, ways but I have found that the more people that are involved, the harder it is for a resolution. Everybody always wants to reject responsibility for a claim - nobody has extra cash for something like this.
In the end someone will pay for the claim and if its not the right person, a business relationship will end over it.

Legally, if it goes to court, the judge will have to decide who had the opportunity to avoid the problem/costs. It will all depend on the facts. The problem is that for $5,000 it will never go to court and someone will just pay to get it off their desk. Who will wait it out the longest and how much is the business relationship worth? That will be the ultimate decision that needs to be made.
 

Freight Broker

Well-Known Member
30
The three way split on the cost of the claim woud likely preserve the relationship, as it seems reasonable. I don't think this would go to court either. I paid out of pocket a few times when it wasn't my fault whatsoever.. but i couldn't prove fault on the part of any of the other parties involved.. so to keep the peace (and my customer) I simply paid the claim. In my most recent case it was an order that involved three carriers.. Order arrived damaged at the receiver (my customer) and of course each carrier pointed at the others as the guilty party, with no paperwork trail. I guess I could have held someone responsible, but all in all the carriers were also doing a good job for me.. so paying the claim was the lessor of two evils.. Still doing business with all involved parties and have made back the money on the claim loss many times over. Sometimes he who has no skin in the game is in fact the party with the most to lose.. am I going to be cagey with a 5K claim and risk losing a million dollar account? No sir/mam.. not this cowboy.
 
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loaders

Site Supporter
30
Jim L, if one picture speaks a thousand words, your 2 pictures speaks volumes! A very good question...."where did the skids go?"
 

lowmiler88

Site Supporter
30
I'm guessing the skids were added after the fact, truthfully it is really the drivers fault he should have pointed out how unstable the load was when loaded that is why the flatheads make the big bucks is it not? I voted for the carrier but would have voted for the driver if it had been an option.
 

Freight Broker

Well-Known Member
30
Whoever "owns" the account is defacto responsible..broker cannot wash his hands of it or he/she will loose the account. Who is REALLY responsible is irrelevant..
 

martinwizz

Member
10
The two pictures shown below doesn't make sense to me. Where did the skids go that was holding the freight level, in the center of the trailer, in the picture taken en-route (voyage replace.jpg)? Please don't tell me that they fell out and if they did, how did the straps get tight? Then the little crate - which wasn't strapped in either picture, slid to the back - not to mention the loose 2X4's. I am adding a picture with both side by side.

I think the driver knows more than he is letting on.
Most likely Jim, although this driver just sensed something was wrong, stopped and decided it would be a great idea to open his rolltite to see inside. Then everypiece that got loose moved towards the side, making the rolltite impossible to close. He had to seek help from people who then moved the skid/levelers from its original destroyed location and replaced them with normal skids as levelers for the rest of the trip. They also helped him tighten the pipes and was eventually able to go back on the road. Thats is the story we heard. I could add both customer and shipper's possible explanations, of course, trying to put them out of the loop. Finally, the carrier which has to provide answers, never did in writing but strongly looks for a full payment of its invoice. Shipper's story seems rather weird, altough i sometimes dont get irony from english as well as in ffrench, as he claims: "
Looking at the pictures you have sent me is rather disturbing. It looks as though most of tubing has shifted backwards and sideways. Looking at picture #10431 the tubing that is sloped backwards was actually loaded resting on the row of tubing behind it on the deck by approx. 1 foot. There was no real weight on that wooden structure. It was placed there as a precautionary support ( thankfully it did what it was intended to do.) Looking at picture #10521 the 3 rows of tubing on top of the bottom row definitely shifted back more than when it was loaded. The overhang should only have been approx. 1’. Looking at picture #10361 the tubing has also shifted sideways. All of these issues occur for various reasons stemming from the load not being properly tied down; a sudden stop (emergency braking) and careless driving. This driver was found to be difficult to work with by the shipping department of XXXXXXX. He was always in the way when loading and when asked to tie down quickly so the workers could go home at 5 pm they were given some attitude. His excuse was he was not making any money on this load. That is unacceptable as it is not XXXXXXXX fault. The total fault of this load issue rests totally with the driver for shifted load and damaged product due to negligence on his part.
 

martinwizz

Member
10
If its longer material and they will take stepdecks I always specify metal load levelers. But I prefer to use flatbeds for this type of stuff and will generally only use steps in a pinch and i know the carrier. Too much at risk. As to your question about who pays for what in the event of a claim.. If the broker erred then there are three responsible parties (shipper/carrier/broker) and the claim should therefore be divded three ways.
In this case, freight broker, i would gladly take a threesome deal. Seems like in those stories, the one ordering the transport is always the one everyone tries to burn.
 

martinwizz

Member
10
I'm guessing the skids were added after the fact, truthfully it is really the drivers fault he should have pointed out how unstable the load was when loaded that is why the flatheads make the big bucks is it not? I voted for the carrier but would have voted for the driver if it had been an option.
lowmiler, in my next insurance case, i'll make sure the driver is an option. As this is very educating, i will post these stuff once in a while. It also feels reassuring for brokers out there they are not the only ones stuck in these cases.
 
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