State of the Union 2020-21

Kysanahc

New Member
2
Absolutely correct, but it's "white-collar" crime, and police forces willing to investigate them are few and far between. For those forces that will investigate white collar crime, their investigation units are woefully undermanned. Then, even if they do manage to lay charges, get the criminals to court, and successfully prosecute, the punishment is typically just a fine, or a fine plus minimal probation. There really is no deterrent to white collar crime in this country, or any other country for that matter.
Register your business in NS, have most of your "assets" in Brampton, operate from a cellphone with a NB number and live in AB.

No police force is getting involved in that.
 

lowmiler88

Site Supporter
30
Why do the insurance companies fall for this scheme??
It's the typical Canadian way everyone is entitled to insurance no matter how bad of record they have. The problem is the Facility provider did or does not work like a normal insurance company and did not properly vet it's clients and took their word verbatim. These people should not be allowed to own companies and yet the Canadian way is to let them drive down the road and endanger all of us.
 

tasuinam

Member
5
Typically the problem is caused by Ontario based carriers that have a safety record that is Chernobyl-ized and dishonest insurance brokers. What they do is rent office space in NS, NB, or PE and claim that as their base of operations. Then they tell some massive lies ...
1) They only have 10 trucks when they really have 100.
2) They only operate in the maritimes.
3a) They never go to the U.S.
3b) They only go into the top end of Maine.
4) All 10 of their drivers have had years of experience, and NONE of them have ever had an accident.
5) Total fleet mileage is about 200,000 miles.

Facility then gives them insurance for around $4,000.00 per truck ... or $40,000.00 for a "Ten" truck fleet. Throw in a good photocopier and there you have insurance for a 100+ truck fleet for $40 Grand.

These are the same people that run their businesses with burner cell phones and stolen fuel card numbers. When the shit hits the fan of course they don't have any insurance coverage, but that doesn't matter to them anyways ... they're already on a plane headed to back the old country ... cash in hand.

The BIG question is ... are the rest of us stupid because we didn't we didn't take advantage of the broken Facility system ???

(BTW ... the 10 for 100 is actually a true story !!!)
Damn... 10 for a 100.... clearly we do not 'think creatively'
 

Michael Ludwig

Well-Known Member
20
All it takes is a crooked insurance broker. The Facility Insurance staff are very likely undermanned and overwhelmed. They simply did not, and do not, check anything, and take the broker's word for what is true and correct.
Real insurance companies are finally involved and making the Facility Insurance proposition better from our standpoint, worse from the standpoint of those that have to use it.
 

Kysanahc

New Member
2
Why do the insurance companies fall for this scheme??
One of the teachers I had at Humber was a full-time Insurance Broker. He owned his own company, super knowledgeable and took the entire 3 hours class going over the insurance industry.

One of the things he touched on is in Canada, everyone is legally entitled to insurance and if they ask for a quote, he is legally obligated to provide a quote. If the customer accepts the quote, he is also obligated to find insurance for the quoted rate.
 

loaders

Site Supporter
30
I believe it was exactly because of that, that led to the creation of the Facility Insurance. The insurer of last resort if you will. Regardless of your record or experience, you could obtain a policy at astronomical prices.
 

Michael Ludwig

Well-Known Member
20
Not necessarily astronomical prices, but very likely higher than the retail market. Price is dependant on driving/safety record.

Because the government legislated that everyone must have insurance to license a vehicle to drive on a public road, then everyone must have access to an insurance policy. Since the government cannot legislate that a private company must take on undue risk, the Facility Insurance Policy (FIP) was born. Even though the FIP is backed by the fiduciary concerns of private sector insurance companies, it is administered by the government and therefore protected from lawsuits, which is the very reason private insurance companies would not take on undue risk in the first place.

The premise of the FIP is this ... you have an excellent driving record and I have an exceptionally poor driving record. You and I both go to the private sector for insurance, and under the law the private sector must provide us both a quote. You get a quote for $5,000.00 and I get a quote for $60,000.00, annually. Either of us can go to the FIP where you get a quote for $7,000.00 and I get a quote for $20,000.00, annually. Your increased rate is helping to fund my decrease rate. Clearly you are going with the private sector, and I am going with the FIP.

Besides price, there are huge policy differences. Your policy with the private sector covers everything under the sun. My policy with FIP only covers me driving my vehicle, and only for PL & PD. I am not even sure that the FIP even covers accident benefits, even though they are legislated ... someone will have to fact check me on that.
It's up to the buyer to determine if the cost of insurance versus the convenience of driving is worth it.

Throw lying, cheating, and stealing by unscrupulous brokers and their clients into the mix and you have the perfect recipe for insurance disaster. I would expect the potential unfunded liability would stretch into the billions of dollars. Were the private insurance companies to be held to that unfunded liability, after what would be epic lawsuits of unfathomable time and expense, I would have every expectation that private insurance policies would simply withdraw from the Canadian market altogether.

Thankfully the government now appears to have seen the errors of their ways, and have decided to adopt the best practices of the private sector insurance companies.

Remember ... Everyone is entitled to an insurance policy. No one is entitled to a cheap insurance policy ... you have to earn that.
 

Jim L

Well-Known Member
20
Why do the insurance companies fall for this scheme??
They don't fall for this scheme-they are forced into this. Because insurance is mandated by law there has to be someone who offers it to those who cannot get it from a conventional method. The insurance companies have created something called 'Facility' where each of them contribute to the fund and those who are un-insurable can make an application to Facility. It is supposed to be way more expensive but as you can see with @Michael Ludwig post they obtain permission for 10 under false pretenses and run 100 trucks. If Facility does not insure them they complain to the government. What is needed is a Czar, ombudsman or a mediator for both Facility and Carrier to make their case to and it be decided upon fairly.
 

bellcitytransport

Active Member
15
They don't fall for this scheme-they are forced into this. Because insurance is mandated by law there has to be someone who offers it to those who cannot get it from a conventional method. The insurance companies have created something called 'Facility' where each of them contribute to the fund and those who are un-insurable can make an application to Facility. It is supposed to be way more expensive but as you can see with @Michael Ludwig post they obtain permission for 10 under false pretenses and run 100 trucks. If Facility does not insure them they complain to the government. What is needed is a Czar, ombudsman or a mediator for both Facility and Carrier to make their case to and it be decided upon fairly.
I couldn't agree more..
 

TRKINSURE

Active Member
15
Why do the insurance companies fall for this scheme??
They had... in the past. They are taking a HARD stance on the trucking carriers and if you’re declined you likely won’t be looked at for a LONG time! They are identifying “chameleon” carriers now and staying away from those individuals. That’s why many of you are now being asked for Articles of Incorporation.
They also use CAB reports which pulls US DOT info on trucks, drivers and contact info to help identify those chameleons.
Some insurers still continue to do business with the brokers who are knowingly misleading them... I say an investigation into those people (underwriters) are necessary too... but those are far and few in between.
I don’t believe you can have a Facility Association contract cancelled in Ontario due to the “all comers” rule. But at least Facility is asking the correct questions now to eliminate fraudsters... until the next scheme.
 

Michael Ludwig

Well-Known Member
20
Which will probably be buying up small 2-5 truck carriers simply for their safety records, and insurance leverage. Add 100 trucks to that fleet overnight, and run it into the ground until the safety record is defunct.
There's lots of offshore money that comes into the trucking industry. It's a good place to do laundry :)
 

tasuinam

Member
5
Which will probably be buying up small 2-5 truck carriers simply for their safety records, and insurance leverage. Add 100 trucks to that fleet overnight, and run it into the ground until the safety record is defunct.
There's lots of offshore money that comes into the trucking industry. It's a good place to do laundry :)
no wonder so any trucks get caught bringing in banned items....wonder how many get away
 
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