Equipment Lists at Renewal

[jonny-chicken]

Greetings all...

Sorry for the long post... I'll provide a TLDR at the end for those who don't want to wear out their eyes... haahaha....

I have a new broker this year and some things are very different...

One problem I've just had is in relation to the equipment list provided to the broker.

Prior to this year I had been with the same broker for many years. I would have stayed with him if I could, but I was kicked out by the brokerage because I knew my rights and expressed my opinions during last year's term when the brokerage tried to take advantage of us and weren't following their own industry rules...

In previous years, I would provide an equipment list for quoting purposes (everything I had active in the fleet at the time) and then in the days leading up to our renewal date, I would provide one last revised list. Usually moving some tractors in our 'parked' list to our 'active' list or vice versa...

I did the same thing with our new broker and insurance company this year. I provided a list of our equipment about 3 months prior to renewal date.

With things being as they are this year, our final quote did not come in from the broker until 3 days prior to renewal... It was a nail biter for sure... The very next day I provided our revised list, moving one tractor from our 'active' to our 'parked' list and also added another tractor to our 'parked' list that I had originally left off the original list because I thought it would be sold by renewal...

When I received the invoices, I noticed they were based on my original numbers... Which is about $10,000 more in premiums than I would have been charged if they had used my revised equipment list.

I asked for them to be revised of course. My new broker contacted me today to let me know that would not be happening. He says the insurance company will be using the original numbers provided and I must pay the premiums as invoiced... Of course, he's really sorry and everything, yadda yadda, but that doesn't do me any good...

Anyone else experience anything like this?

Was I just getting it too good with my old broker in being able to change my equipment list mere days prior to renewal, or is that something others are doing too?

I have asked for some clarification and hope to have this resolved to my satisfaction, but at this point I'm feeling burned...

TLDR... (for those who don't know... it's Too Long Didn't Read... like what we used to call 'coles notes' back in the old days... )

I revised my equipment list one day after receiving my renewal quote and two days before renewal date...
The changes I made would result in a premium reduction of approx. $10,000
Invoices I received from Insurance company were based on the original equipment list, not my revised list...
The Insurance company has refused to revise their invoices and insists on charging me the full premium on the original 'unrevised' list...

Thank you for any and all comments...

 

[thebluffs1]

If memory serves me correctly, the endorsement on your policy that allows you to adjust for unit counts is an OPCF 25A. It may be possible that your old policy had this endorsement and your new one does not?

 

[jonny-chicken]

If memory serves me correctly, the endorsement on your policy that allows you to adjust for unit counts is an OPCF 25A. It may be possible that your old policy had this endorsement and your new one does not?

Thanks for your comments thebluffs1... I must admit, I've never noticed that endorsement before... In looking at my coverage documents I do not see it listed in my current policy... But I do see it listed in my old one...

I'm not really sure if it applies though, as I provided this list before my renewal, so the renewal documents and billing should have been based on my revised list... I'm guessing the 25a would only apply to changes after the renewal date...

I have a call soon with the broker to explain...

 

[Jim L]

Depending on the type of insurance you're getting the insurer might have to record your fleet size and changes after the record date are handled with the 25a. It might be that it was too close to the renewal date. Either way, you should get the credit based on the terms you have under your OPCF 21b.

 

[Michael Ludwig]

It's a pretty tight market out there, as everyone is aware ... Unfortunately it's not about how much you pay for insurance, but whether or not you can even get insurance.
If it were me, I think I would eat the $10k or $20k right now, and work on establishing a relationship with the underwriter and the insurance company.
If you have the right broker, you may be able to renegotiate that in about 6 months.

There are ways to actually win at the insurance game, and over time I have probably identified most of them in these forums somewhere.

It would be easy to list them all here and reveal how its done in one fell swoop, but let's be honest, I'm not a big fan of cutting my own throat, and not doing so keeps the fools at bay
(No offense johnny ... I'm confident your situation is different)

 

[jonny-chicken]

It's a pretty tight market out there, as everyone is aware ... Unfortunately it's not about how much you pay for insurance, but whether or not you can even get insurance.
If it were me, I think I would eat the $10k or $20k right now, and work on establishing a relationship with the underwriter and the insurance company.
If you have the right broker, you may be able to renegotiate that in about 6 months.

There are ways to actually win at the insurance game, and over time I have probably identified most of them in these forums somewhere.

It would be easy to list them all here and reveal how its done in one fell swoop, but let's be honest, I'm not a big fan of cutting my own throat, and not doing so keeps the fools at bay
(No offense johnny ... I'm confident your situation is different)

Thanks for the reply sir... I was wondering when you might show up... haahaa..

I'm a pretty nice guy, as you've seen from some of my posts... So, I'm sure I will make some friends with my new insurer in the end...

For now, I'm just trying to make sure I don't get screwed... haahaha...

I did just have a long talk with my broker, and it seems as though something may have shifted since this morning... I have been told that I should expect a resolution that will be to my satisfaction, within the next month... I'm ok to wait and see...

What I'm really wondering though... Is this:

Do you other carriers handle renewal the same way? You provide an equipment list months in advance to get a quote and then after receiving the quote, you decide you would like to adjust your numbers just prior to renewal...

Am I a jackass to expect this is ok, or is everyone else doing it too? haahaha...

Thanks again..

 

[thebluffs1]

Thanks for the reply sir... I was wondering when you might show up... haahaa..

I'm a pretty nice guy, as you've seen from some of my posts... So, I'm sure I will make some friends with my new insurer in the end...

For now, I'm just trying to make sure I don't get screwed... haahaha...

I did just have a long talk with my broker, and it seems as though something may have shifted since this morning... I have been told that I should expect a resolution that will be to my satisfaction, within the next month... I'm ok to wait and see...

What I'm really wondering though... Is this:

Do you other carriers handle renewal the same way? You provide an equipment list months in advance to get a quote and then after receiving the quote, you decide you would like to adjust your numbers just prior to renewal...

Am I a jackass to expect this is ok, or is everyone else doing it too? haahaha...

Thanks again..

I provide a renewal list and an inception list. I'm billed for unit adustments under the OPCF 25 endorsement on a prorated basis.

 

[Michael Ludwig]

My renewal date is 1 August. I start my renewal process 15 April, so yes, I do provide a preliminary equipment list, then we fine tune it about two weeks prior to actual renewal.

That renewal process window is really important. If your broker is doing things right, they will cherry pick your numbers from that window. i.e. if your active numbers go up a bit during that window they'll use your initial numbers. If active units go down, they'll use your revised numbers. Your broker will try to apply that same logic to your loss ratio, but it doesn't always work, especially if you endure a significant loss during that window.

It's during this window that you want to meet your underwriter if you can. Even though the insurance company has sent a safety expert/risk assessment specialist out to evaluate your business from a risk perspective, it's important to get your underwriter out because they take a look at your whole business, not just the apparent risk. To them there is a reason you take risk, and if you can get them on board with your reasoning, you are off to the races so-to-speak.

The last thing you need is for the insurance company's actuaries to have unrestricted sway over your premium evaluation. You are just a number to them. Just another entry in the profit/loss column if you will. Your broker and your underwriter, and their relationship with each other, can make or break you with the actuaries.

 

[jonny-chicken]

My renewal date is 1 August. I start my renewal process 15 April, so yes, I do provide a preliminary equipment list, then we fine tune it about two weeks prior to actual renewal.

That renewal process window is really important. If your broker is doing things right, they will cherry pick your numbers from that window. i.e. if your active numbers go up a bit during that window they'll use your initial numbers. If active units go down, they'll use your revised numbers. Your broker will try to apply that same logic to your loss ratio, but it doesn't always work, especially if you endure a significant loss during that window.

It's during this window that you want to meet your underwriter if you can. Even though the insurance company has sent a safety expert/risk assessment specialist out to evaluate your business from a risk perspective, it's important to get your underwriter out because they take a look at your whole business, not just the apparent risk. To them there is a reason you take risk, and if you can get them on board with your reasoning, you are off to the races so-to-speak.

The last thing you need is for the insurance company's actuaries to have unrestricted sway over your premium evaluation. You are just a number to them. Just another entry in the profit/loss column if you will. Your broker and your underwriter, and their relationship with each other, can make or break you with the actuaries.

Thanks for your reply.

I've never met with an underwriter and it's never been suggested to me by anyone else that I should.

Interestingly enough, I have now been introduced, as I asked the Risk Assessment guy who I should talk to about this issue, and it's the underwriter that he sent me to. I'll be sure to reach out and see if we can get to understand each other better.

Thanks for your advice sir. It's always appreciated...

 

[Michael Ludwig]

Glad it worked out for you