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WSIB is a coming

Discussion in 'Workplace Safety and Insurance Board (WSIB)' started by bubba-one, Apr 5, 2014.

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  1. bubba-one

    bubba-one Site Supporter

    Just wondering, is it just WSIB in Ontario that is so far in deb or are the other provinces in the same situation with their WSIB. As 111 noted that the federal safety is gone, I've never had an out of province injury nor do I want to experience this, but what kind of support would WSIB give a guy when he gets home and the injury heppened in another province now. I prefer to sleep better with my private coverage that's good 24 hrs a day at work or play, out of province or country. Thus we have all o/o opt out of WSIB, get the clearance number, and buy the private coverage for them.
     
  2. Maggs

    Maggs Member

    AT Guest111 - Very well written!
     
  3. needtoknow

    needtoknow Member

    Guest 111
    It seems you are well informed about the WSIB My comment on the construction wasn't on the ELLIS and DON type companies but the smaller family type construction companies who are now looking at more under ground economy. I know this because I do a lot of business with them. Where do you think all this extra money Ellis and Don will now have to pay in extra premiums from our taxes for all the public construction they are doing! So his winning and who is loosing! I'm interested in your booking advice how can you separate warehouse workers with the 570? You can't it goes by the classification of the company! If you are classified trucking you pay 7.2 per hundred for all your employees including your bookkeeper, dispatcher and order taker! Again I think its a useless government department, if I was in charge I would close it down add 1 or 2% to the Unemployment Insurance and have that department handle any type of claim. This way everyone who is working in this country would be insured! This would remove all the crap and everyone would be on the same playing field and the government would save fortunes! I have to stop now my blood is starting to boil. Have a great day!
     
    rickway likes this.
  4. guest111

    guest111 New Member

    You are correct as the WSIB has some severe legacy debt because of their mistakes to the tune of like 6 billion dollars to catch up on.
    But your comments on the construction sector are a bit unfounded. Bill 119 mandatory coverage for construction was applauded by all key construction firms doing business in Ontario and lobbied for. Now everyone who sets foot on a construction site to work MUST be able to provide proof of coverage, you cannot opt out and get Blue Cross or Sears Insurance. This does two things. Insures everyone is insured and paying premiums, and henceforth the premiums will go down as the rate is based solely on experience of that rate group. With TV and Radio coverage telling your grandma to ask for WSIB before getting her windows washed, its hurting the underground not helping it
    If you double the size of the pool, the incident rate does not always follow. That is why when you state big players i.e. legitimate companies in the courier group pay 60% less, has a lot to do with two things. The have a way better safety program reducing claims ( TTC, Purolator )and the pool of employees is a lot more than trucking. Not knowing your situation, I have successfully taught carriers to reduce costs by making some bookkeeping adjustments and maintaining an arms reach system so that they can pay a lower rate on warehouse workers, pick and pack etc and only pay the 570 rate on those directly involved in trucking.
    If mandatory coverage like Bill 199 came into effect for trucking..(.hmmmm I think I have heard that somewhere) then the pool would increase with that comes some benefits to all. What the enhanced audit process today is achieving is making 3pls and trucking companies accountable for the firms they hire forcing firms to comply. And discovering who the scammers are and making there life unwell. If the pool grows the playing field becomes even. You have to remember that WSIB is no longer an education and prevention entity, since being taken over by the Ministry of Labour Ontario, they are what they set out to be...an insurance company formed by industry to protect the workers from unscrupulous business owners, albeit mandatory.
    On that point us Federally regulated guys got a wake up call last fall when they discontinued the Federal safety officer. Now when you have a major injury and you report it to HRSDC like a good corporate citizen, out comes the MOL to investigate. Hey have you tried to buy a hard copy CLC Part 2 lately? The Federal government STOPPED printing it in November, Seems some changes may be coming there.
    Hey you are right on this point though... if your head office is in lets say BC ( at your aunts house ) and payroll originated from there etc. The WSIB will never visit you because it is not in their budget or collective agreement. Hmmmm
    Just think of how happy legitimate trucking companies will be when all the others that skirt the legislation had to raise their prices by $6.72 a hundred. That my friend is far above the net profit of most companies
    As you can tell I don't approve of some of there tactics, but we are stuck with them forever
     
  5. needtoknow

    needtoknow Member

    Unfortunately with the manufacturing sector disappearing from Ontario - it leaves only distribution with trucking as the income replacement for WSIB. WSIB made the changes to the construction sector creating even more of an underground economy. I can see one day drivers will be paid in cash like the construction workers are.

    If you think they are keeping the trucking companies on an even playing field I have some nice Florida land to sell in the Everglades if you are interested. Do you know the top transportation companies like FedEx, Purolator, TTC and Canada Post have segregated WSIB benefits? Meaning the office employees don't pay the same as the truck drivers! That's an even playing ground?

    How about the all the so called courier companies operating trucks at courier rates two thirds cheaper than trucking. Do you know that not all employees in Ontario pay WSIB? The banks who are the biggest profit producers don't pay a single penny into WSIB. Did you know that it's not legal to operate a trucking company and not pay WSIB? The way WSIB forces you to pay is to lock your bank account until you pay or close your business. If carriers decided to open US bank accounts and operate their business through a US bank account there is nothing that WSIB can do to you except take you to court and force you to pay. But if you can prove to the judge that all your employees are privately insured and that insurance is better than WSIB - the judge would throw out the case. For me WSIB is a sham. It's to keep the public sector employees working and nothing else! I think a lot of the private sector business we had in Ontario left because of WSIB and the massive regulations that detour entrepreneurship!

    I wish the Ontario Trucking Association would get together and put a stop to WSIB. And remove them from the trucking industry. Then and only then would we all be on the same level playing field! As you can tell I hate WSIB!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 20, 2014
    rickway, Nawk and Paul Shteyn like this.
  6. guest111

    guest111 New Member

    Good for you,
    It is unfortunate though the demise of the NEER rebate is close at hand as they desire to make the system more revenue neutral
    Good luck in your travels and travails
    MD
     
  7. Maggs

    Maggs Member

    Well luckily we are doing the right thing....we only have 4 -O/O's and were already audited by WSIB and we past with flying colors....(even received a refund due to good standing) and yes they had to complete a lot of forms...and the insurance company ensured we and they were doing the right thing.
     
  8. guest111

    guest111 New Member

    Not so simple,
    WSIB does not care if a o/o has outside coverage or not, (although it is better coverage imho) as a "legal" independent operator( ie with WSIB status) can opt for or against WSIB their choice. Construction is the only rate group where everyone is mandatory to participate and I have heard rumblings that this is the next route for trucking.
    The o/o must pass the sniff test as outlined in WSIA... the so called "organizational test" and must apply for and possess a formal ruling of independent operator status for each carrier he/she works for in the case of a one truck deal when working for a load broker or if solely for one carrier .
    I see hundreds of o/o's that cant get this because the company is in the spouses name , the truck is leased to different company than the payout is made, etc. and all these are then deemed to be employees and the rate is the prevailing years rate at approx. two thirds of the contract total value. This precludes someone from owning or leasing more than one truck and putting a driver in it.
    Interestingly I have seen WSIB unravel a leasing company to find a carrier was part owner of it and therefore negating the so called "organizational test " If your o/o is an employer ( most teams fall into this category ) then yes they must apply for and maintain an account in good standing, and the carrier can maintain an Eclearance on them and be warned immediately of non-compliance to CYA
    I have seen them go after a 3pl for WSIB owing and add it to a carriers insurable earnings for a $125.00 cross dock charge.
     
  9. Maggs

    Maggs Member

    Good Morning, Its very simple - All "company" employees must be covered under WSIB and all O/O's have to be either covered under their own WSIB account or must provide an equivalent WSIB insurance program and yes the O/O must complete a WSIB questionnaire. If the O/O chooses to go the route of having their own WSIB account then the "company" must have a program in place in which the O/O must provide the company with verification that they have paid their quarterly dues as stated by WSIB. If the O/O chooses to have their own insurance program then it must adhered to WSIB etc.....our O/O's are under an insurance program provided by The Edge Benefits and its through Waddell Insurance. Have a safe day!
     
  10. guest111

    guest111 New Member

    Ralph,

    I am referring to the WSIB Contractors questionnaire for transportation, where they make a decision as to the legitimacy of the master/servant relationships and issue a clearance letter, which by the way MUST have your name on it so the single army trucker has to fill out one of these for each company they work for....I know I know
    I have seen so many companies try to make everyone a independent, right down to the receptionist. They will get you as your name will pop up in someone else's audit guaranteed
    Unbeknownst to many they have access to CVOR and they can tell how much power you got versus your WSIB status
    They want their money and to level the playing field
    Avoiding the Rate can make the difference of 5-6% of the profit of these players
     
  11. Are these primarily O/O agreements OR agreements where unscrupulous (imho) employers try to make employees into contractors?
     
  12. guest111

    guest111 New Member

    Folks,

    Get your E-compliances set up, and contractors agreements in place as I have done over 40 audits in 2013 versus 17 in 2012.
    I recently was involved with one where a carrier now owes over 500k for trying to be smarter than the accountants at WSIB.
    Play nice as they see the 570 sector as at least a 1B cash recovery effort as big as construction was.
     

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