Procter & Gamble

Salma

Active Member
#1
P&G is refusing to pay for 6 hours of detention time at their Lima OH distribution center. Their "computer" says my driver checked out 6 hours before he actually left the facility. While my driver was there, they had a significant power outage that they admitted had "messed up" their internal computer systems but since the same "system" has erred in their favour, they will just be going with those recorded times. (even though a SIGNIFICANT amount of evidence has been submitted proving that my driver was there the entire time)

P&G distribution centers are already notorious for taking forever to live load/unload but we have always been compensated in the past.

Disgusting and shameful behaviour on their part.
 
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lowmiler88

Site Supporter
#2
Stay on them Salma people are desperate for trucks and you should get paid, I know on our side we have all our trucks running full out and a very large excess of freight through out the States that is near impossible to sell.
 

PackRat

Site Supporter
#3
HI Salma,

I agree with Lowmiler. If you let them brush you off they will be happy about that. Stick to your guns on this one and get paid for the job you did.
 

chica123

Site Supporter
#4
Here is a question...are you hauling this load directly for P&G? If not, I would be going to the load broker that gave you the load or in the event you are hauling directly for your own customer, go to them for the detention charge and let them deal with P&G.
 

Freight Broker

Well-Known Member
#5
If P&G is your direct customer do a cost/benefit analysis to determine whether or not you should go after them about the wait time or whether you should just forget about it. There is such a thing as cutting your nose off despite your face in this biz.. if you do alot of loads for them ask yourself how much they're contributing to your own bottom line. I have a couple of very large accounts who are also prima donnas and will not pay a dime in detention regardless of the reason.. but.. they've made me a wealthy man so I suck it up AND pay my trucks for waiting around.

Second scenario.. if you've gotten these loads through a broker.. go ahead and hit them up for wait time. If they're smart (and stupid brokers aren't likely to snag big accounts like P&G) then they too will pony up some detention money for you.. If they've got P&G then they're doing just fine and can afford the odd detention payment to a carrier. A smart broker isn't going to whine about a one off that requires a detention payment to a carrier.. even a few one offs are fine if they're doing a couple or more thousand loads for them a year and a small fraction of those require detention.
 

Salma

Active Member
#6
Here is a question...are you hauling this load directly for P&G? If not, I would be going to the load broker that gave you the load or in the event you are hauling directly for your own customer, go to them for the detention charge and let them deal with P&G.
This load was through a load broker. They made the request to P&G twice but it was rejected both times. The broker ended up paying us for half of what we had initially requested.
 
#7
I guess half is better than nothing, but still it is time and revenue that your driver will never get back unfortunately. For a delay like that, broker should have ponied up a better settlement, especially if you do the lane consistently for them...or even if a couple time, just shows good faith in my opinion.

Unless it was a one time deal for both parties then take the half, be thankful for that, cut your losses and move on, and just limit work with that broker or others going to that same type of shipper/receiver.

I understand the frustration having been on both sides of the coin though.
 

MikeJr

Moderator
Staff member
#8
Computers can't change logic. If your driver and the shipper together wrote in and out times and signed on the BOL (this should happen at all pickups/deliveries, waiting time or not), there should be no argument about how long the driver was there. A person in an office far from the shipping area who decides on waiting time approvals doesn't have the right tools if they are relying on a computer system that has failed. The hard copy should suffice for 100% compensation.

Keep well,
Mike
 

chica123

Site Supporter
#9
This brings us back to that question we keep referring to...
Who is responsible for waiting time; the broker or P&G?
In my opinion, if you got the load from a decent broker, they should pay you waiting time 100%. If they haven't built in a buffer with P&G, they are going to run into a lot of problems. You shouldn't have to worry about whether the broker gets reimbursed or not...not your problem. I would use some kind words to bring this to the broker's attention. You work for them, not P&G.
 

Freight Broker

Well-Known Member
#10
The entity that agreed to compensate for the waiting time is responsible for paying for it. Personally I take care not to mention detention/waiting time in my broker carrier/agreement. In this way I'm not obligated to pay it, but I pay it nevertheless on a case by case basis. None of my own customers obilgate themselves to pay this expense either, and for me to do so would therefore be foolish as I have zero control over it. But again, I generally do pay the carriers detention because I'm a fair minded person, and paying the odd detention charge (without the obligation of having to pay it) is really the lessor of several evils that include losing a good longtime carrier.
 

Salma

Active Member
#11
Computers can't change logic. If your driver and the shipper together wrote in and out times and signed on the BOL (this should happen at all pickups/deliveries, waiting time or not), there should be no argument about how long the driver was there. A person in an office far from the shipping area who decides on waiting time approvals doesn't have the right tools if they are relying on a computer system that has failed. The hard copy should suffice for 100% compensation.

Keep well,
Mike
You are absolutely right! This only became an issue because, conveniently for them, P&G does not allow the drivers to write the IN/OUT times on the BOL. We submitted log books, emails, phone logs, blood, hair, DNA etc and they still refused to pay. At that time, we were still using paper logs but now that elogs are in effect, P&G can no longer change the truck in/out times in their "internal system". Logic AND proof should be sufficient enough but I believe 100% that they changed the times in their system just to avoid paying for detention.
 

Salma

Active Member
#12
If I had tons of time and money to waste, I would take this to court just to prove a point because the amount of evidence that we provided would be beyond sufficient enough for a judge to decide in our favour. Dare to dream.....
 

loaders

Site Supporter
#13
I can only assume that your contract with the broker (or with P&G if you dealt directly) contains an agreed list of all your accessorial charges, including detention and/or allowed loading, unloading times. It would certainly be something crucial to any chance of a successful court battle.
 
#14
Our policy is as follows: We contract with the carrier, if our customer refuses to pay detention it is not the carriers issue, it is our issue with our customer and we pay regardless. Having said that if the delay is properly marked on the B/L we never have a problem billing and getting paid for detention from our clients.
 

Rob

Site Supporter
#15
I can only assume that your contract with the broker (or with P&G if you dealt directly) contains an agreed list of all your accessorial charges, including detention and/or allowed loading, unloading times. It would certainly be something crucial to any chance of a successful court battle.
I have maybe seen one brokers contract (load conformation)that spells all that out that I can remember and they where cheap as hell. Salma, Live an learn and get the next time by adding it to the rate. They don't wanna pay one day they will the next. Freebies have to be over in this business.
 

loaders

Site Supporter
#16
I agree Rob. No one should be expected to provide a service and receive nothing in return. The point I was making was for a carrier to ensure that all of their "terms and conditions", including applicable accessorial charges, are made known to the freight broker or shipper prior to accepting the load. In the US, I believe these are referred to as tariffs and are filed with what used to be the ICC. I know that this is all well and good after the fact, but it does help to have some documentation on your side when things go sideways as they appear to have done in Salma's case. Having said all that, if P&G outright refuses to pay anything extra, and the broker won't respond positively, just move on as you suggested.
 

Freight Broker

Well-Known Member
#17
We have several instances where shippers (large ones we all know) will purposely fudge the load times to show no more than two hours loading. I know this happens ALOT. Had one the other day.. shipper indicated truck had gated out and left their facility under load when in fact they hadn't even started loading the truck yet. At the end of it the trucker asked for a couple hours of wait time (which I paid) but the shipper insists that he was loaded and gone much earlier. I know all this because my driver sent me a time stamped pic of his truck at the shipper's facility showing the truck empty..Very sad when people can't be honest.
 
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Salma

Active Member
#18
From now on, time stamped pictures showing driver and truck will be taken at the shipper/receiver both upon arrival and once detention time has started. That combined with the elogs should avoid any future questions regarding when our truck was at a particular location and for how long. @Rob is right - no more freebies!
 

lowmiler88

Site Supporter
#19
Now is the time for trucking companies to find new customers and replace the ones that do not pay fair accessorial charges or have excessive wait times (whether they pay or not). This will be the best time to have frank discussions with your customers on what can and cannot be done with ELD's we are past the wink wink nudge nudge part of this business. Shippers cannot screw over drivers and not expect to pay, it cannot be hidden in the logs anymore.
 

Freight Broker

Well-Known Member
#20
Shippers rationalize their policy of not paying detention.. they say they don't CHARGE their brokers and carriers either when they are delayed for whatever reason. So, Murphy's Law being what it is, delays are a wash.. the shipper/receiver pays nothing for his delays and the carrier pays nothing for his delays. I've found that delays beyond anyone's control are spread roughly 50/50 between shippers and carriers. That being what it is, I see paying detention as a cost of doing business with certain customers. If you want shippers that offer thousands of loads a year then occasionally the price of that is that you're going to have to pay some detention on 1% of those loads. I accept that... would rather that than having to collect detention and having to deduct monies from carriers who are late.. Instead its a wash.. I don't expect detention nor do I expect them to deduct anything from me if one of my trucks is late or falls through on a load.
 

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