Flatbed load in the USA overweight, who is liable?

RK in AB

Site Supporter
10
We recently had a situation where a driver was loading in TN to come to Calgary and Edmonton. There were pallets stacked on top of pallets and the load was quite shaky. The pallets collapsed once and the shipper was hesitant to fix it. They finally did but the load was no more safe than before. The load needed to be tarped and there was no tarping station so our driver refused to tarp. I got a call from my customer saying that my driver didn't have tarps and that we knew this was a tarp load. My driver sent us pictures of the load which I forwarded to my customer. The shipper reworked the load again and tarped the load for my driver all the while apologizing. My customer had no idea that the load was as bad as it was.

It sometimes makes us unhappy but I'd rather have a driver refuse a load than take one that is unsafe or illegal.
 
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TransAction

Well-Known Member
20
For anyone who is interested, here is the latest:
I have a meeting with my customer next Thursday. I talked to the girl we normally do the bookings with and over the phone she has admitted that they are liable for the overload but the carrier should have also weighed the freight. I did not hear back from the carrier until today. They sent me a bill for the following:
$1,400 CAD for the original load
$1,400 CAD to send a 2nd truck to get the rest of the overloaded freight
$1,700 USD for the transfer and cross docking of overloaded freight
$750 USD for the fine
$1,000 USD lawyer fee to fight the ticket and points

Thoughts? I expect a flurry of feedback on this one! :confused:
 

RK in AB

Site Supporter
10
I'll chime in early. Tell them to go pound sand! As bad as it sounds, the ultimate responsibility comes to the driver. He has the right to refuse a load if it is illegal. If he chooses not to exercise that right then he has to accept the possible consequences. Your scenario sounds more like poor training by the carrier than it does poor shipping practices by the shipper. The shipper is responsible for shipping a legal load but if they are not advised that the load is overweight, they can't adjust it. Did the driver scale and go back to the shipper to have the load fixed? Was he turned away if he did go back?

The shipper of a HAZMAT load is obligated to supply placards but it is the driver's responsibility to make sure they are visible and on all sides of the trailer during the entire trip. If one came off and the driver got a fine would the carrier go after the shipper? That's the same idea, just different commodity. The carrier needs to provide better training to his drivers or they are going to put him out of business.
 

Rob

Site Supporter
30
Driver is a piece of work. If he went out 13k over gross and the driver could not tell he was that heavy the driver is an idiot.

I have hauled 60 k on a tandem flatbed back in the day and you sure as hell can tell the difference between 47 (legal for most) and 60.

I have to concur that the carrier has to come to the table as they should of scaled the damn thing. $1700 for cross docking sure does sound excessive but if it was a towing company doing it at the scales well we have all heard those stories.

The lawyer fees well what can you say might as well swing for the fences to get them paid also. He forgot the driver bonus for the second truck.
 

hauling_ass

Active Member
15
Maybe I am missing something but...
WHY did they have to send a second truck for the remainder of the freight? Would it not have been cheaper to have someone in the area pick it up?
 

TransAction

Well-Known Member
20
Maybe I am missing something but...
WHY did they have to send a second truck for the remainder of the freight? Would it not have been cheaper to have someone in the area pick it up?
They got pinched in MI and the delivery was in south OH so we would have had to hire a full load flatbed USA carrier to deliver in the timeline we wanted so price would have been close to the same. I told the carrier I have a meeting with my client on Thursday and told the carrier I would follow up with them on Friday. I am thinking of asking my customer to cover some of the expenses, not the legal fees of course, and telling the carrier they are responsible for the rest.
 

loaders

Site Supporter
30
I would suggest that perhaps your customer could cover the cost of the fine, as the weight of their goods were the cause of the infraction. All the other costs resulting from this episode should be the responsibility of the carrier as it was their driver whose actions, or inactions (not scaling the load) led to this expensive outcome. They had an opportunity to prevent this, but they failed to do so.
 

TransAction

Well-Known Member
20
I would suggest that perhaps your customer could cover the cost of the fine, as the weight of their goods were the cause of the infraction. All the other costs resulting from this episode should be the responsibility of the carrier as it was their driver whose actions, or inactions (not scaling the load) led to this expensive outcome. They had an opportunity to prevent this, but they failed to do so.
Yes, that is the direction I am going. If my customer is reasonable, I would like to keep them. We definitely will not be using this carrier again.
 

hauling_ass

Active Member
15
Yes, that is the direction I am going. If my customer is reasonable, I would like to keep them. We definitely will not be using this carrier again.

And this is why the carrier should have just made it right as soon as they realized their driver had made a bad decision.
 

RK in AB

Site Supporter
10
I guess I'm an island on this one but I do have a couple questions. If you are never going to use this carrier again, why would you run the risk of looking like a fool by asking for money from the customer when it really isn't their fault? The charges are a direct result of the driver not doing his job. Secondly, what would have to happen for you to not consider asking a customer to cover a carrier's expenses? If the driver went the wrong way would you pay for extra mileage or worse ask your shipper to? Would ask for the guy's bail if he got arrested after a two state police chase because your customer wanted it there asap? Where do you draw the line?

I guess there is a new definition of accountability that I haven't been made aware of. Also, the balls on the carrier that asked you for money must have their own postal code because I can't imagine asking to get paid when one of our drivers is that stupid to run illegally. Hell, asking for money condones being stupid and paying them seems to condone it as well.

Sorry if I sound harsh but maybe the driver isn't driver material. Would you want him driving behind you or your family with that load on? Did he pay attention to the road because he sure as hell didn't pay attention to the rules!

This now completes my rant!!!
 

TransAction

Well-Known Member
20
I guess I'm an island on this one but I do have a couple questions. If you are never going to use this carrier again, why would you run the risk of looking like a fool by asking for money from the customer when it really isn't their fault? The charges are a direct result of the driver not doing his job. Secondly, what would have to happen for you to not consider asking a customer to cover a carrier's expenses? If the driver went the wrong way would you pay for extra mileage or worse ask your shipper to? Would ask for the guy's bail if he got arrested after a two state police chase because your customer wanted it there asap? Where do you draw the line?

I guess there is a new definition of accountability that I haven't been made aware of. Also, the balls on the carrier that asked you for money must have their own postal code because I can't imagine asking to get paid when one of our drivers is that stupid to run illegally. Hell, asking for money condones being stupid and paying them seems to condone it as well.

Sorry if I sound harsh but maybe the driver isn't driver material. Would you want him driving behind you or your family with that load on? Did he pay attention to the road because he sure as hell didn't pay attention to the rules!

This now completes my rant!!!
I believe the shipper is somewhat responsible here. I can't just go on letting shippers think they can load whatever they want and leave the whole responsibility to the driver, they have to take some onus here. It's a small amount anyway.
 

RK in AB

Site Supporter
10
I guess when I read the part where you said the driver thought he was overweight I took that to mean that he thought he was overweight and that he would let the shipper know he would go scale and come back if it's overweight because that's what a responsible driver would do. No where in my wildest dreams did I think it meant he would run down the road illegal because he doesn't understand how important a CVOR is. My bad!

Will you at least let us know who the carrier is so we can avoid them too?
 

TransAction

Well-Known Member
20
I guess when I read the part where you said the driver thought he was overweight I took that to mean that he thought he was overweight and that he would let the shipper know he would go scale and come back if it's overweight because that's what a responsible driver would do. No where in my wildest dreams did I think it meant he would run down the road illegal because he doesn't understand how important a CVOR is. My bad!

Will you at least let us know who the carrier is so we can avoid them too?
Yes, of course, carrier is BSD Linehaul
 

chica123

Site Supporter
30
I do agree with TransAction here. We all agree the driver is not cut out to be a driver. There is no way he/she should have left the dock or weigh scale with this freight. And they should eat the majority of the costs. But like TransAction says, the shipper was very sloppy. They had no business telling the driver just to go to the scale and come back if there was a problem. They should have done better to prevent this mishap and if it doesn't hit them a little where it hurts, they will continue on with their sloppy loading procedure.
 

RK in AB

Site Supporter
10
I'll let this go but I do want to ask one more question and perhaps we can get a few more opinions from some other members as well.

The shipper asked the driver to go and scale the load and he agreed (as stated in original post) to do so. If after an hour or so the shipper called you and asked you to call the carrier to get the driver to come back and you asked them to go back but they didn't, would you still want to ask your customer to pay anything towards the costs incurred by the carrier? Why or why not?

How can you tell I've had a slow day! LOL
 

loaders

Site Supporter
30
As far as the shipper knowingly overloading the truck, no one can say that for sure. What we do know for sure, is the driver had an opportunity to scale the load when there was an indication it might be over weight, but chose not to. Anyone can put too much weight on a trailer, or load a shipment that is unstable for transport, but only a fool agrees to take it down the road. Only a fool should pay for a fool's mistake.
 

TransAction

Well-Known Member
20
I'll let this go but I do want to ask one more question and perhaps we can get a few more opinions from some other members as well.

The shipper asked the driver to go and scale the load and he agreed (as stated in original post) to do so. If after an hour or so the shipper called you and asked you to call the carrier to get the driver to come back and you asked them to go back but they didn't, would you still want to ask your customer to pay anything towards the costs incurred by the carrier? Why or why not?

How can you tell I've had a slow day! LOL
It's important that I point out that the guy in shipping told me he told the driver to scale the freight after they found out the potential costs of this situation. I am pretty certain that discussion did not happen here.
 

RK in AB

Site Supporter
10
It's important that I point out that the guy in shipping told me he told the driver to scale the freight after they found out the potential costs of this situation. I am pretty certain that discussion did not happen here.

I didn't say it did, I asked if your position would be different if it had. It's a hypothetical question. When I asked it I was wondering who would pull cash out of their own pocket to compensate the carrier in this case.
 

TransAction

Well-Known Member
20
I didn't say it did, I asked if your position would be different if it had. It's a hypothetical question. When I asked it I was wondering who would pull cash out of their own pocket to compensate the carrier in this case.
In this instance, I would not hold my customer liable as the carrier did not follow instructions.
 

chica123

Site Supporter
30
This is a bit of a tricky area. I don't like the idea at all of scaling off-site. The reason is this. Your truck hypothectically could kill an innocent driver or pedestrian on the way to the scale. We all would never want this to happen of course. But if it did, do you think the MTO is going to say, "well, you are 13 000 pounds over weight, but because you were on your way to the scale and weren't sure yet, we'll overlook that"? I just don't like the off-site scale idea at all in this instance. Both parties should have excersized better judgement.
 
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