Claim Subrogation

[jonny-chicken]

I'm having some trouble with a claim that we are trying to have subrogated against a third party, and wondering if anyone has any experience with a similar situation or any advice...

- My trailer was damaged in the US at a shipper.
- I have camera footage showing the third party (also a trucking company) backing into our trailer
- I have an incident report from the shipper explaining that my trailer was backed into

The trailer needed a new axle so the repairs were substantial. I have paid out our $5000 deductible with the idea that I will get that back when my insurance company subrogates against the insurance company of the third party that did the damage.

My claims adjuster is not doing a very good job in subrogating, in my opinion. They have left several voicemails and sent some emails to the third party's insurance company and I am told that there has been no response. That seems to be the extent of their efforts.

This leaving of voicemails and sending of emails has now gone on for over 4 months... All the time, my insurance adjuster is saying we need to be patient and these things take time to resolve. Meanwhile, I have paid out my $5000 deductible and won't get that back until this is resolved.

My thought is, the adjuster is lazy or not doing their job, or just doesn't care because it doesn't cost them anything, afterall, it is my $5000 that was paid out and I will not get it back if the adjuster is not successful in subrogating. Maybe that's just my unrefined opinion as an 'insured', but maybe not...

My insurance broker is also telling me to be patient and that there is really no other way to go about this...

Any thoughts anyone?

 

[bellcitytransport]

I'm sorry to hear about your incident. Over the last three years I have handled 2 separate situations where subrogation was required. The first was about 13 months from accident date till I received my reimbursement from our insurance company. Our deductible is 10 grand so it was felt. The second time I'm currently on Month 4 and am expecting it to take awhile longer. It is a slow process, and weekly reminders to both your broker and insurance company is the key I've found. Ask questions about the progress and keep them on their toes. The insurance company is eager to get their monies as much as you.

 

[economy]

We have some experience dealing with insurance claims. However, your story is not complete in terms of jurisdiction and some facts, so we could advise you on. Please PM us for further discussion.

 

[MikeJr]

JC,

Are you a TIA member? If you were to input a complaint, that would be available to carriers/brokers that use the TIA Watchdog tool for vetting new and existing suppliers. The carrier would of course be notified of the complaint and would have an opportunity to respond there (at least it may encourage an actual reply)... http://www.tianet.org

Nothing worse than being ignored, especially if you are the victim here.

Keep well and good luck,
Mike

 

[jonny-chicken]

JC,

Are you a TIA member? If you were to input a complaint, that would be available to carriers/brokers that use the TIA Watchdog tool for vetting new and existing suppliers. The carrier would of course be notified of the complaint and would have an opportunity to respond there (at least it may encourage an actual reply)... http://www.tianet.org

Nothing worse than being ignored, especially if you are the victim here.

Keep well and good luck,
Mike

Thanks for the info Mike. I have checked and the carrier, WL Byers Trucking, is not a member of TIA, nor am I at this point.

 

[jonny-chicken]

I'm sorry to hear about your incident. Over the last three years I have handled 2 separate situations where subrogation was required. The first was about 13 months from accident date till I received my reimbursement from our insurance company. Our deductible is 10 grand so it was felt. The second time I'm currently on Month 4 and am expecting it to take awhile longer. It is a slow process, and weekly reminders to both your broker and insurance company is the key I've found. Ask questions about the progress and keep them on their toes. The insurance company is eager to get their monies as much as you.

Thanks for the reply BellCityTransport. That sucks, having to wait more than a year to get your 10K back...

It is reassuring to me however, that you were actually able to get the money back, even if it took that long... I've been waiting 4 months, so I guess I may have a long road ahead.

 

[lowmiler88]

Who is your actual insurance company because if it was determined not to be your fault which it sounds like it isn't why would you have to pay a deductible at all? A deductible is for an at fault accident. If you trust your broker he/she should know best but if you do not think they are up to snuff then you should start looking around I have a great broker much the same as a lot of companies on this page you shouldn't have to be asking these questions and know your broker will resolve it for you. Being a part of a captive you really see the inner workings and realize that you need a strong Commercial Broker in this industry and it takes a lot of stress off of you.

 

[chica123]

I agree with Lowmiler 100%

 

[jonny-chicken]

Who is your actual insurance company because if it was determined not to be your fault which it sounds like it isn't why would you have to pay a deductible at all? A deductible is for an at fault accident. If you trust your broker he/she should know best but if you do not think they are up to snuff then you should start looking around I have a great broker much the same as a lot of companies on this page you shouldn't have to be asking these questions and know your broker will resolve it for you. Being a part of a captive you really see the inner workings and realize that you need a strong Commercial Broker in this industry and it takes a lot of stress off of you.

Thanks for your input lowmiler88,

I am with AIG Ins...
I trust my broker... to a point...
It was explained to me that I must pay out the deductible as part of the repairs and will only get it back upon successful subrogation against the third party. Basically, until a third party admits fault, it is deemed to by my fault.

If you don't mind... I would appreciate a PM with your broker's name...

 

[chica123]

I don't know if I agree 100% with the statement that until the other party admits fault, you have to pay your deductible. You presented the evidence to your broker/adjuster. It sounds solid. It should be their job to apply pressure to the other party and come to an agreement based on the facts. It sounds like a very unusual situation you are in. I would be certainly applying pressure at my end to get this straightened out. In fact, I believe I would have refused to pay the deductible until it was sorted out. Now that you have paid, could it be that there is little incentive for your agent/adjuster to resolve the matter?

 

[bellcitytransport]

I don't know if I agree 100% with the statement that until the other party admits fault, you have to pay your deductible. You presented the evidence to your broker/adjuster. It sounds solid. It should be their job to apply pressure to the other party and come to an agreement based on the facts. It sounds like a very unusual situation you are in. I would be certainly applying pressure at my end to get this straightened out. In fact, I believe I would have refused to pay the deductible until it was sorted out. Now that you have paid, could it be that there is little incentive for your agent/adjuster to resolve the matter?

This has to do with Tort and non-tort states. Some states and most provinces wouldn't require the deductible to be paid if you weren't at fault. However MOST states don't have what we call no fault insurance like Ontario, in those states you are obligated to recover your losses from the 3rd party's insurance company directly. The fact that our insurance pays out for the repair is a courtesy in the sense that without that we would have to wait till the 3rd party agrees and forwards the funds. In some situations a percentage of fault can be placed on other parties including your truck, not in this specific case. Therefore the funds to cover the loss are only a percentage of the actual costs and thus your deductible will only be refunded to the percentage of which you were found not responsible.

 

[chica123]

This is true. Thanks Patrick! I am seeing tunnel vision thinking of Ontario only I suppose.

 

[loaders]

Same as it was years ago here in Ontario, before "no fault" insurance became standard. However "no fault" is a somewhat inappropriate name, as there is always "fault", or a faulty party in any accident.

 

[bellcitytransport]

Same as it was years ago here in Ontario, before "no fault" insurance became standard. However "no fault" is a somewhat inappropriate name, as there is always "fault", or a faulty party in any accident.

I don't want to show my age but since I've driven Ontario has always been a "no-fault" province. Which means I started driving after June 1990.

 

[jackhole]

I don't want to show my age but since I've driven Ontario has always been a "no-fault" province. Which means I started driving after June 1990.

You are a puppie.

 

[loaders]

June 1990......that was just a few weeks ago! Wasn't it?????

 

[dad2andrew]

I don't want to show my age but since I've driven Ontario has always been a "no-fault" province. Which means I started driving after June 1990.

OMG me too...but just! Just did the math.

 

[jonny-chicken]

So... there seems to be some consensus here that this is unfolding as members here might expect it to...

Thanks everyone for the posts and information. I will keep up the pressure... and exercise some level of patience... unfortunately, that doesn't come naturally to me...

 

[dad2andrew]

Unfortunately patience is a virtue, especially when dealing with insurance companies or the government.

 

[TRKINSURE]

What State did this happen in? It comes down to the 'law of the land' so it depends on whether or not you can actually get your deductible back.

If it was in a State where subrogation is possible, then I understand from time to time having to wait for an investigation to take place. But as a broker, I can tell you that is largely on the broker to control and maintain updates/push for results. Adjustors have tons of files on their desk and get paid when the claim is complete. Sometimes they just don't have time to go back around and wait for others to contact them with further information (I have plenty of adjustor friends who can validate this).

If you have a good relationship with the insurer and they know subrogation is possible, a solid thing for them to do is cover your deductible and have those funds kept when subrogation is complete.

Have your broker make regular updates and get the details on what exactly their waiting for. Some might be out of their control (ie; 3rd party adjustor, validating information etc...), but make them earn their commission. It's what we (should be) doing.

I invite you to PM me.